Thread: Should I convert to keg Pocket Holes or stay with Mortise and Tenons on Deck Bench?

Hi Barry

You can chop mortices with a chisel, or use a router. When using a router, this is the jig I built. After many over a few decades, this is the best so far ...









It should be self-explanatory.

Regards from Perth

Derek

Originally Posted by Derek;

.....If the timber is sound, I would replace the tenons with loose tenon joinery. .....

Originally Posted by woodPixel

.....For this bench, perhaps you could use big dowels, the biggest that will fit inside the timber... such as 20mm. .....

Yep; Are really big dowells just round tenons?

Agree with comments on screws; screws do not hold well in end-grain.


Cheers

Graeme

Originally Posted by barrysumpter

Excellent advice gents.
Much appreciated.

Nixed on a new build.
I'm wondering if epoxy is expensive?

OK. Here's what I'm thinking.

Epoxy ( adhesive NOT resin ) as a gap filling glue between joints
Wood hardener
Loose tenons
wider mortise

remove joint glue by removing all existing tenons.
re-drill mortise wider and deeper to a standard size removing glue
making my own loose tenons to fit mortise properly
gluing using epoxy
Keep covered

sounds like a start

Hi Barry

If that is the way you want to go ...
I suggest that
1. you replace all unsound wood -- including glue affected or weathered wood that will be part of a joint -- with fresh wood using dutchmen, well fitting plugs, new pieces scarfed onto the existing members, etc.
Glue these pieces with thickened epoxy adhesive. My experience is with SystemThree's products thickened with wood flour, but I understand that West Systems 200 series is similar. Be careful with your hardener as the wrong one will flash set if it's too hot or not cure at all if it's too cold. i.e. read the labels and manufacturers literature and understand the temperature ranges of the materials.
This will be a fair amount of work, as from the photos every member will need to be "repaired" so that the joints are cut in sound wood. BUT if you are not working with sound timber for the next step you are just spending time and money and not really achieving anything.

2. Re-cut all the joints to achieve a good fit. Loose tenons are an option if you so desire and a Domino will be the easiest way to cut them.


All up I think the "repair" will be more work than a new build.

Originally Posted by woodPixel

A Grandfathers Axe

Love it

...

https://www.woodmagazine.com/woodwor...-with-a-router

I've got oregon timber posts.
Should I consider using oregon to replace the bits n pieces on the bench?
I can't recall if the bench is made of meribu or jarra.
Might make a decent contrast.

Originally Posted by barrysumpter

https://www.woodmagazine.com/woodwor...-with-a-router

Barry

There's lots of ways to cut mortices with a router.
Your initial problem is replacing glue contaminated and unsound wood with good wood so that your new joints -- however you make them -- are in sound timber. This is not a trivial task.

Got lucky! Pretty much never happens.
Found a 4.5mm Polycarb 1220 x 590mm for $30
Others wanted $35 + GST for 400m x 400mm.

So gonna give this a fair go.
How to make a perfect mortising jig
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JA3XjEXMxj8

Been so long since I made something my hands are shaking.

So freakin cold out.

How do I heat my garage?
Its brick.

Its got two roller doors.
With heaps of space for heat to escape around the rolls.

No ceiling.

And just ceramic tiles on the roof.
Where I can see light streaming thru.

Brrrrrr

Originally Posted by ian

...... Loose tenons are an option if you so desire and a Domino will be the easiest way to cut them...... .

Hi Ian

Just wondering if Dominos would be robust enough in this application?



Cheers

Graeme

the 10 x 24 x 50 ones should be. I think Barry's problem will be that he doesn't have enough sound wood

Any thoughts on this:
https://www.woodcraft.com/blog_entri...non-dimensions


Following found on: https://sawmillcreek.org/showthread....-mortise-depth

Question: i have a 3/4" thick by 4" wide leg that is going to get a mortise so it should have a mortise of 1/4" thick by 2" wide and 2" deep the stretcher is also a
3/4" x 4"??

Reply: you can get a 3" wide mortise w/ tenon out of that 4" wide stretcher....leaving 1/2" shoulder top and bottom; and 1/4" shoulder on the sides....
Sounds like you're using loose tenons....??


Another reply: On most of my standard rails, aprons, etc. they are all 3/8" because the mortiser is set up with this standard bit.
There are plenty of ways to get more exact in the dimensions, etc. but practicality and speed win out and 3/8" works well for most applications.

Another reply:
Here are some standard rules-of-thumb which are good guidelines but actual dimensions can vary a bit, ie, I use a 3/8" mortise and tenon in 3/4" stock.

1) Tenon thickness should be 1/3 the thickness of the stock being mortised to ensure the stock being mortised doesn't weaken.
2) Tenon width shoud be no more than 5 times its thickness, 4" being the max before more than one tenon should be used.
3) For a blind mortise, the mortise depth should be 2/3 the width of the board being mortised.

Dismantled and investigating

IMG_9214.jpg

IMG_9249.jpg

IMG_9250.jpg

IMG_9265.jpg

IMG_9277.jpgThey all look quite reasonable

IMG_9251.jpg

IMG_9255.jpg

IMG_9257.jpg

IMG_9270.jpg


I could swear thats Jarrah.
Might be Merbau.

All except a couple were degraded glue.
And still tight Mortise and Tenon fittings.
Only one fell out.

Estimating about 150 Tenons to clean up and the same for Mortise.

All further suggestions welcome!