Thread: Should I convert to keg Pocket Holes or stay with Mortise and Tenons on Deck Bench?

Originally Posted by barrysumpter

Yes. I've thought about adjusting the back to make the posts closer together.
Where the top feature rail could be shortened by 5mm each.
The centre post tenon narrowed by 5mm each side.
That would take up the gap in the 12 middle rails.

The 8 outside rails would need adjusting as well.
I could cut the top feature rails (don't want to) on the outside of where the middle posts meet the top feature rails.
And take up the gap there for the 8 outside rails.

Barry,
lay out all the pieces arranged as they would be in the bench.
Work out which bits -- once the tenon shoulders are squared off -- will drive the final width and depth of the bench. Note those dimensions on a full scale (or 1/4 scale) copy of the bench plans. Change all the other dimensions to suit.
DO NOT guess. DO NOT assume. Work out the actual measurements.

Grab your courage and start squaring things up and shortening those rails that need to be shortened.

Originally Posted by barrysumpter

Still the question remains about cutting off all the tenons and replacing with mortise and loose tenons.
Or shortening all the existing tenon shoulders and the existing tenon lengths to suit.

how many mortices need to be filled and re-cut?

uhhh, nah!
3° this morning and 2° expected tomorrow morning.
yeeeeouch!
So no hurry to get out in that cold weather.
So staying inside where its warm and plan plan plan.

IMG_9449.jpg

Bring it all in and do it on the kitchen table or lounge room floor.

Tried that. The gorgeous lady wouldn't have it.
We've got a decent sized spare room the daughter was using for studies.
It's been empty now for at least 6 months.
And I could run a heater in there instead of the whole house.
But no.
I'm sure the good lady knows once I get in there I'd start using it for my woodwork.


The pic above shows already assembled.
Previous pics show the gaps.

Waiting for the temp to max out.

Frak! 13 out of 20 rails need adjustment
And thats just the back of the seat.
All the other joins look like they could use squaring up.


So going to call it.

Just do them all.

They good lady doesn't want me to trash this bench.
Nor start from scratch on a new one.
She would be happy to just glue everything back using the best glue.
And leave it at that.

Looks like cutting all the tenons off And squaring all the rail ends.
Then mortising the rails with the proper size mortise. Depending on the rail size.

Then making the correct size loose tenons.

Tackling the winter "nup!"s
https://coach.nine.com.au/2017/08/22...ppiness-doctor
Doesn't have to be full on depression to follow these suggestions.
Just stay active by rugging up and getting out there and eating properly.

I was out this morning at 7am in 2° weather on the way to the grocery shops.
Frak! I was hurting so bad I was mad.

Frak! 13 out of 20 rails need adjustment
And thats just the back of the seat.
All the other joins look like they could use squaring up.

Barry, a word of advice in case you have not considered this ..

It is not enough to square up the ends of the boards to flush fit the joinery. You must also ensure that all parts (such as the seat slats) are exactly the same length, otherwise the total will not come together flush.

Separate all the pieces that are the same, and joint/saw them as one on the tablesaw.

Regards from Perth

Derek

Hi Derek,
I have considered this.

Many thanks.

Hi Barry

Have been watching from afar and believe that an elegant solution has evolved. Just shorten the "defective" rails and then shorten all companions to match - Same setting on table saw!

Conceptually, the most difficult bit will be shortening that curvaceous top rail to match - it can be done at the centre joint, but will take some effort to get your head around it.

It might be worth getting some 3mm MDF and, using a router with strait cutter and bearing, cut forms of the modified components, to see that everything lines up. Then you can shorten the MDF form of the top rail. All should now fit. Check and double check; then cut the actual top rail - both sides. You will only get one go at this!

As Ian said......DO NOT guess. DO NOT assume. Work out the actual measurements....

Thinking in 3D with constraints is not easy; keep analysing and reviewing until you are comfortable. (Derek could put this much more elegantly.)

Now go for it.



Fair Winds

Graeme

I had not had any interest in woodwork in 50 years until I seen a Video on the Kreg Pocket Hole system , Then I seen a Video where draws were being made with a Router and a Jig - a draw with dovetail joints in under 10 minutes ( till then thought routers were just for fancy mouldings etc not Joinery.
I bought a Pocket hole Jig and have since built up my tool collection. I mainly do pocket hole joints + Glue as well and the Kreg jig for making plugs is fantastic. Tomorrow I finish building my Router table and will build and by some Jigs and special router bit sets.
There are a lot of jobs where Pocket Hole joints are more than sufficient but then it’s a matter of Choice where you use them or other type joints
These days you don’t really need opinions as there are plenty of Videos and books that enable you to make informed decisions.
Marc Sommerfeld (https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCT-...RWaEpMA/videos) has caught my attention and using his method of Cabinet making ( have chosen a set of his router bits )
The LEIGH RTJ400 Router Table Joinery Jig is very attractive but might miss out as Amazon.com will be closed to us Australians from JULY 1 as they want to use their Australian site that has a poor selection and price gouges us.​

The RTJ400 is $US329 on Amazon USA at the moment and $AU469 from Carbatec. It would cost more to buy and import from Amazon than what you can buy it locally.

Lappa is right:

• US$329, at retail FX rates, converts to AU$444,
• Carbatec's AU$469 equates to about $410 net of GST and customs duty, but that does include cost of freight from USA,
• Amazon price is thus rather high, bordering on rip off!

Cheers
Graeme

Leaning towards this as its clean and easy to use:

Loctite 14ml Self Mixing Epoxy With Spare Nozzles
https://www.bunnings.com.au/loctite-...zzles_p1210127


I have an outstanding query regarding gluing only the tenons and not the tenon shoulders.
I really want to glue the shoulders as well.

self mixing is good

the 5 minute open time is, IMO, far too short for what you are attempting.

Originally Posted by barrysumpter

.....I have an outstanding query regarding gluing only the tenons and not the tenon shoulders....
I really want to glue the shoulders as well.

Hi Barry

The shoulders are end-grain which does not glue very well. Also any glue squeeze out needs cleaning up.

In practise, when you glue just the tennons, there is a little bit of squeeze out so that part or most of the shouldered is glued but no major clean up needed.



Cheers

Graeme