Thread: I dislike "Likes"!

Yeah, I think I get what you are saying Derek. You do exceptional work. Sometimes I disagree with your methods or process, and say nothing. That is remiss of me. The opportunity for me to learn is lost by not commenting. The opportunity for me to pass on helpful information is also lost. I'm a hack woodworker at the end of the day. I do what I do to put food on the table, with varying levels of success. I aspire to building pieces as complex as you do. I also aspire to sell those items for a price that is adequate to support my life.

I have taken on board what you have said, and I would agree wholeheartedly with the original intent.

Commenting, or more to the point, asking questions or challenging the process will elicit conversation, and learning for all.

Thanks for posting this.
Cheers
Bevan

Hmmmm. I get where you're going here Derek, and like others it was very tempting to like your first post, 'cept I didn't really like/agree with all of it.

I think it's a very useful tool for showing appreciation, especially if one is time-pressed. Many times I just flick through the new posts and have a quick glance at some of them. I really don't get why people spend so much time on social media anyway (not directed at you there). Chrissakes, get a life (those people) - get out to the shed or summink. Anythink!

Having said that, there are many times when I comment on something, but also give it a like as well.

What's more it could be worse. In the style of my (at the time a few years back) 16yo old daughter:
Like, if we didn't have the like button then there would be, like, a lot less appreciation shown, or like a lot more of the simple posts etc, which like just gum up the thread li, IMO. I kinda wished she'd had a like button back then.

I believe that if the like button disappeared there would be very few extra posts added to the various threads.



So what will happen now, in your threads, is that all the likers can post "Yes, I like that Derek". Reckon you'll get even more tired of that gumming up the threads!

It's the facebook culture, isn't it, where some peoples fame and fortune (not to mention their sense of self esteem) hang on how many people (whom they have never met nor will they ever meet) 'friend' them, 'follow' them and 'like' their (facile - that's how I translate "Facebook") posts. Well - at least most of them
are facile.
It's crept out of that environment and taken over the forum-sphere. We like to be liked, and so we go and liberally punch that button for others.

I still miss the days of usenet when there was no such thing as - it was all about discussions -- even though you could not really do something like post pictures or plans, which really is one benefit of the forums that made usenet awkward at times.

Really, the discussions here are usually pretty good I find (when I find the time to log on, which hasn't been all that often since we moved house in August).
People do engage on the subject matter in hand. I would not give up too easily.

My comments on posts are mostly to learn how things were done by the craftsmen like Derek or AlexS etc, or why the work was done in such a manner, and I usually include a Like.

Perhaps creators of threads could actually invite specific comments in their initial post, asking for better ways of attacking various problems, different finishes, better methods of clamping etc

I also find it uplifting when I get a tick of approval from some of the gun craftsmen in this Forum, preferably in a comment, not a Like.

I think all of us like it when questions are asked about the work we do by users looking to learn.

We all seek approval of some form, and Likes from a recipient point of view are just an empty form of approval that does not satisfy this want. A simple "Well done " comment is far more meaningful and satisfying to all of us.

I am sure Derek could expound the psychology of this need for approval, recognition and acceptance

Finally, with tongue in cheek, perhaps a "Dislike " button would draw out the more positive comments in defence

Perhaps we can invent our own culture.

Some of us may have facebook, but I think all agree its toxic and the domain of attention whores, febrile minded snowflakes, trolls and SJW's. This forum strikes me as the exact opposite of that.

Add an acronym at the end of a post indicating you'd like responses, comments, commentary and involvement rather than just a like..... Responses, Comments, Commentary and Involvement Welcome

RCCIW

WP,

You forgot the Bunterish lickspittles and box-ticking jobsworths (grin).

Me, I'm too busy whacking bits of wood with a chisel to get worried about whether to like likes or thank thankers. Having said that, I'd like to thank everyone who makes this forum such a friendly, informative and helpful place to be (I don't 'hang out' - well, not on purpose).

cheers,

Brian

Originally Posted by homey

Me, I'm too busy whacking bits of wood with a chisel to get worried about whether to like likes or thank thankers. Having said that, I'd like to thank everyone who makes this forum such a friendly, informative and helpful place to be

Hear! Hear!

Are we done yet?

mick

Derek,

It's actually kind of interesting that you posted this. I literally sat at my computer for a few minutes yesterday when you made the final post of your sofa table. I didn't really have any specific comment I wanted to make, because it all looked great. I couldn't pick out one part or another to comment on, because as far as I was concerned you had used all of the best joinery, great materials, exacting attention to detail, and you'd ended up with a very well designed, appropriately proportioned, and aesthetically pleasing piece, the craftsmanship of which I was very envious. I'd been regularly checking that thread.

But part of me is uncomfortable posting that. There's a significant portion that feels like that's just gushing, and another significant portion who feels kind of like "who am I to provide that kind of critique" since you're vastly more experienced and skilled than me.

So as opposed to saying something understated like "Great job, Derek. Excited for the next build!", I chose to just hit the like button and let that do the talking. I genuinely gave it some legitimate thought, so seeing this post definitely hits home. I try to remove myself from my "Millenial" generation's (I wear that badge of shame by one year, unfortunately...) tendency to be incredibly impersonal and indifferent on the internet, but I guess in that instance I kind of blew it. Sorry about that...

Please don't stop posting your furniture builds. The forums would be far lesser without them.

Cheers,
Luke

And I don't apologise for liking what Luke said too. Spot on!

I joined FB some time ago mainly to keep up with what my family is up to. The ads, likes various BS feeds etc, really got on my goat and I stopped using it several times but I eventually installed a product called fluff buster which allows you to customise it to suit how you want to see it. FB hate it, No ads, no unsolicited feeds, No pushing you to update, No pushing of friends of friends, No links to other posts or what someone else said about people you don't know etc. This means I only see specifically what I want to see which is direct posts from friends. At the push of button I can still see the BS if I want to.

I realise the owner might not like this (OK leave the adds in , although they are trivial to remove) but this is how Forums should be or should be moving closer to. There is some of this already available but there could be more and the first one should be that the OP should be able to switch on/off various things. The first thing I would do is switch off most of the forums I rarely visit, This should be linked to and would remove most of the new posts, it would make checking new posts quicker and easier. The same with Likes or no likes with the poster determining if they wanted likes or feedback. In fact why not change it to "feedback welcome?" Like I said, we could then maybe also see who was maybe seeking "something" or not seeking it. It does not mean these things are removed permanently and could be quickly be switched back on when the user had time to kill etc.

As Luke hints at, the absence of responses may be saying just as much as responses. If you are the OP it's interesting to see who visits the thread and does not respond with either a like etc or a post. Reasons could be, too busy, overwhelmed, just wet myself-laughing, more of the same, do I write, post is trivial, of not much interest, jealousy, post is too "Showy" , too technical, too wordy, BS, drivel, etc. and does it even matter?

In some cases I find it takes effort to stay constructive, positive, and not to sound to preachy, or like a broken record (dust, . . .. dust, . . . . .fine dust. . . . . .). I sometimes write a post - like this one - let it sit for half an hour or a whole day and the revise and post. if the effort gets too high it never gets started or posted.

If users wanted specific feedback on posts they could consider inserting their posts in the Polls forum where they could write their own responses to trigger discussion and members could even vote on these responses - I note "Rats Ring" features as an option in a number of polls - could be a useful indicator of relative interest?

Thanks for the posts everyone, and thanks to those few from Luke and Bob.

I am sitting at work with a few minutes spare before my next appointment. It is not enough time to write a solid response, and only enough time to shoot off a thanks or click a Like button. It's an appropriate analogy for the topic in this thread. Like too much in life, we skim through the good and do not take the time to attend to the details.

Bob, I'll see you tonight at the club meeting? (all about sharpening ...aaghhhh!)

Regards from Perth

Derek

Originally Posted by derekcohen

Bob, I'll see you tonight at the club meeting? (all about sharpening ...aaghhhh!)

Sorry I won't be there. I haven't been a member of the Association for the last couple of years.
Like my responses or lack thereof, interests change, right now its family, electrical/electronics and programming.

Originally Posted by BobL

I joined FB some time ago mainly to keep up with what my family is up to. The ads, likes various BS feeds etc, really got on my goat and I stopped using it several times but I eventually installed a product called fluff buster which allows you to customise it to suit how you want to see it. FB hate it, No ads, no unsolicited feeds, No pushing you to update, No pushing of friends of friends, No links to other posts or what someone else said about people you don't know etc. This means I only see specifically what I want to see which is direct posts from friends. At the push of button I can still see the BS if I want to.

I realise the owner might not like this (OK leave the adds in , although they are trivial to remove) but this is how Forums should be or should be moving closer to. There is some of this already available but there could be more and the first one should be that the OP should be able to switch on/off various things. The first thing I would do is switch off most of the forums I rarely visit, This should be linked to and would remove most of the new posts, it would make checking new posts quicker and easier. The same with Likes or no likes with the poster determining if they wanted likes or feedback. In fact why not change it to "feedback welcome?" Like I said, we could then maybe also see who was maybe seeking "something" or not seeking it. It does not mean these things are removed permanently and could be quickly be switched back on when the user had time to kill etc.

As Luke hints at, the absence of responses may be saying just as much as responses. If you are the OP it's interesting to see who visits the thread and does not respond with either a like etc or a post. Reasons could be, too busy, overwhelmed, just wet myself-laughing, more of the same, do I write, post is trivial, of not much interest, jealousy, post is too "Showy" , too technical, too wordy, BS, drivel, etc. and does it even matter?

In some cases I find it takes effort to stay constructive, positive, and not to sound to preachy, or like a broken record (dust, . . .. dust, . . . . .fine dust. . . . . .). I sometimes write a post - like this one - let it sit for half an hour or a whole day and the revise and post. if the effort gets too high it never gets started or posted.

If users wanted specific feedback on posts they could consider inserting their posts in the Polls forum where they could write their own responses to trigger discussion and members could even vote on these responses - I note "Rats Ring" features as an option in a number of polls - could be a useful indicator of relative interest?

Vbulletin was more configurable in past renditions than it is now, in the past unwanted sub fora could be switched of and I for one did it but now that is not the case and some forum owners are either ditching VBulletin or thinking of it because of the way the software has evolved. I think forums will eventually go the way of Usenet and die out as other stuff takes over, I bet the average age of forum users is a lot older than FB users and those that use both will carry habits from one to the other.

I looked at woodworking on FB. I am not a FB guy and just look for posts from family. The egocentricity of most posts I see is just overwhelming. It is as though people there actually believe that others want to know their every move and thought. Good Grief! What happened to a sense of privacy?

Anyway, the format seemed to favour, even encourage, grab-your-moment type posts. There were no discussions, just Look-At-Me-And-What-I-Have-Built! I imagine that the only one's comfortable with this are aged 12 years and starting out.

If forums evolve (as all does), it must not be in that direction.

Regards from Perth

Derek