Thread: I dislike "Likes"!

Well Derek, you got your wish - up to page 4 of discussion in less than 24 hours- pretty good going!

I think a whole raft of issues has been raised in the ensuing exchanges, but to address your original post questioning the value of the 'like' button, I think it pretty obviously serves different purposes for different people. I've ticked 'like' for posts for different reasons, anything from appreciating a humerous comeback, to what I thought was some deeply thoughtful post. I usually follow up with a post that should make it clear what in particular I was liking, but not always - if someone who knows me takes a gentle (or even not-so-gentle) swipe at me, I often 'like' the post, which in my mind is showing that I appreciate their desire to keep me honest, & needs no further explanation. However, in general, I think we should try to explain ourselves whenever we can. Perhaps that's not so easy for the generation who didn't get the rigorous schooling in English composition that we copped back in the 50's & 60's?

And as Luke pointed out, there are times when there just isn't anything much more to say, & though a 'like' is a rather weak sort of response, it at least acknowledges that you've read the post, & did have a positive reaction to it. Quite often, I feel there is nothing more to say on a topic, e.g., your sofa table. I joined in the design phase discussion, but by the time you got to the end, I had nothing useful to say. Doesn't mean I didn't like the finished product (I do) but I reckoned it speaks for itself, now. My better half suffers from an affliction that has parallels - she is renowned for giving such well-constructed and thoughtful talks at scientific meetings that no-one ever asks questions at the end, which leaves her feeling a bit deflated. If she challenges the audience, the invariable response is "Well, you covered everything so thoroughly, there's no question you haven't already answered....."

Cheers,

Well enunciated Ian.

Originally Posted by IanW

anything from appreciating a humerous comeback, Yes
to what I thought was some deeply thoughtful post. well.....I don't seem to do many of those.....
if someone who knows me takes a gentle (or even not-so-gentle) swipe at me, I often 'like' the post, which in my mind is showing that I appreciate their desire to keep me honest

But your last point (that I've quoted) brings up something very important. A "like" of post that may appear as a "shot" to others, who may not be so familiar, can indicate that you know they are just taking the mick.

Just last week or so there was a situation where a poster (that I know can be abrasive, from previous posts) said something that appeared to even more abrasive than usual, and he did not qualify it with a smilie. Had he done so then people who were unfamiliar with his relationship with the target would not have taken umbrage (justifiably, I might add) at his post. (and the target seemed to be everyone over a certain age, rather than just "Mr X" - who happens to be a well known and justifiable target if ever there was one )

It took the target to make a post that said essentially "relax, he's just having a shot at me". So a smilie or a "like" can change the thrust completely, and/or prevent things from stirring up or at least calm things down.

Our increasingly busy lives takes its toll on a lot of things, participation on forums included.

I am one of the ones who clicked like/thanks in the posts you mention Derek. I did it to let you know that your efforts were appreciated.

I run my own business, work 7 days a week, start each day while the vast majority of people are still in a deep sleep, and put in some long days. On top of this I am doing a reno on my bathroom and toilet at home.

I log onto the forums multiple times each day and see whats new, but very rarely post, as it becomes very frustrating trying to compose a sensible passage of words with the constant interruptions I get at work. Took me 4 hours to read this thread up to post #39 yesterday, and its taken me 45 minutes so far typing this post with about a dozen interruptions from the needs of my business. I tried to compose a post late last night but fell asleep at the keyboard.

So what I am trying to say is, take the likes/thanks as a compliment because sometimes thats all people can manage.

( 53 minutes to type this post all up )

Originally Posted by BobL

The ads, likes various BS feeds etc, really got on my goat and I stopped using it several times but I eventually installed a product called fluff buster which allows you to customise it to suit how you want to see it.

I gave Bob's post a Like because I liked it.

But in addition to liking it I want to thank Bob for the above information. I installed and it removes all my pet hates of FB making it much more enjoyable to watch what's posted in the groups I'm interested in. Thank you Bob.

Peter.

Ps. A bit of topic but it illustrates what this thread is about, generally liking something and pointing out something specific in the post.

If i had of got in on this earlier i would have given my views but i will opt out and just say that for me Luke hit the nail on the head with his reply.

Now I'm too uncomfortable to click "like" on any of these posts...

Quite a lot of discussion and minimal likes. Is this thread a success? Probably, because it has created debate and it has raised awareness of a potential issue. Writing is dynamic and the tools we use to convey our thoughts have increased vastly since the time of papyrus and the stylus. Since the age of the computer, mobile phones and the resulting social media there has been an exponential change in the way we converse. I don't think we will ever return to a wholly articulate way of expressing ourselves in the way people in the nineteenth century and earlier could.

My conjecture is that we need all the conversational tools we can get our hands upon: So this includes the likes/thanks type facilities as well as the host of emoticons. However, to return to the OP and specifically the "likes" I think the question of likes and or an actual post is deeper seated than we might imagine. My own belief is that we all seek approval from our peers in one form or another. It is just a trait of society. My wife claims that I don't need people in the same way as most, but she is wrong in that. Something that troubles me at times is that I post for accolades. I think there is a small element of that but also it is about sharing. Mankind is gregarious and it is one of the things that has made him successful compared to other species.

Now if you think that this is a baring of the soul, please don't be too apprehensive as I've left huge amounts deeply buried! What I am driving at is whether we think a "like" is not enough. Perhaps we should be either asking ourselves whether the Forum (think commercial market) is sending us a message if we do not get replies or it is just that we have presented ourselves in a way that is not achieving the right effect. If nobody replies to a thread I create and nobody likes/thanks for that thread I am fairly certain it was poorly received and I need to think twice before submitting anything else along the same lines. If the likes facility is removed there could well be a huge number of threads with only the one OP and sweet Fanny Adams to indicate that it was well received. Sometimes we are just too exact to elicit written replies: Too perfect if you prefer.

"Likes" work extremely well for people who are:

1. Busy
2. Have nothing further to add, but really like the post/thread.
3. Don't feel able to articulate thoughts on the subject but nevertheless wish to be a part of it.
4. Wish to remain slightly in the background.
5. Would otherwise feel intimidated.
6. Wish to avoid conflict or confrontation.
7. Want to lend their weight in support of a thought/idea/project

In fact when I think hard on it, that last one and the first one seem to do it for me at least ninety percent of the time.

Regards
Paul

IanW wrote:

in general, I think we should try to explain ourselves whenever we can.

Exactly my point, Ian.

I am mindful that I could have just passed on the rest of this thread. I have been flat out at work, and now have a few minutes free after a day reading but not replying. I remind myself that a reply is important. I started the thread, and it would be rude not to acknowledge those who have taken the time to convey their thoughts. I will not simply go Like.

Paul writes:

Since the age of the computer, mobile phones and the resulting social media there has been an exponential change in the way we converse. I don't think we will ever return to a wholly articulate way of expressing ourselves in the way people in the nineteenth century and earlier could.

Paul, that is my deep distress. I work with problem kids and see the impact of screens and other distractions on their focus. I see the lowering of literacy, the increase in impulsivity, and the rise of egocentricity.

My favourite story, to parents, is that I recall a game of chess I had with an uncle of mine when I was 11 years of age. Playing chess is not unusual, however my uncle lived in another country (in London, to be exact), and we would exchange moves via postcard. I think that we managed a move a month. Well, our game went on for 2 years before we got together to complete it. The question is, could children of today do this? The answer is that they do not need to - they could use email or the Internet instead. In other words, the learning experiences of my (our) youth are unavailable to the kids of today, and with it go training in patience and self-control. It takes self control (self regulation) to write when one could more easily push the Like button.

Regards from Perth

Derek

PS I still give Likes.

Originally Posted by derekcohen

I am not sure where to post this rant. However, I post it here as this is where I think it belongs.

I dislike Likes as they make all forum members lazy. A Like is a nice gesture of appreciation, and sometimes all that can be done as a indicator of support. However, where a thread is introduced to create discussion, the Like can sabotage all the effort taken to create a suitable platform.

I really am tempted not to post any of my furniture builds in the future. I appreciate the Likes - really - but I post these builds not for praise but for discussion. Rip them apart! Be critical. Offer alternate thoughts. Post your own work! I do not start a thread and expect ownership. I start them to share. Please participate if you can.

Derek
I get your drift, but I also don't want to offer too much criticism of your builds as it could too easily be seen by many as jealous sniping.

I also intensely dislike those threads that contain post after post repeating the line "great work, bro."

I haven't yet read the final installment of your sofa table build, so have no comment on how the table turned out.


but to your rant
the Like button has a purpose, as does the "where's the bloody photos?" button.
and the "thanks" button IMO removes the clutter of posts thanking another poster for their contribution.

Originally Posted by derekcohen

Paul writes:


Paul, that is my deep distress. I work with problem kids and see the impact of screens and other distractions on their focus. I see the lowering of literacy, the increase in impulsivity, and the rise of egocentricity.

My favourite story, to parents, is that I recall a game of chess I had with an uncle of mine when I was 11 years of age. Playing chess is not unusual, however my uncle lived in another country (in London, to be exact), and we would exchange moves via postcard. I think that we managed a move a month. Well, our game went on for 2 years before we got together to complete it. The question is, could children of today do this? The answer is that they do not need to - they could use email or the Internet instead. In other words, the learning experiences of my (our) youth are unavailable to the kids of today, and with it go training in patience and self-control. It takes self control (self regulation) to write when one could more easily push the Like button.

Regards from Perth

Derek

PS I still give Likes.

Derek

I am glad you picked up on my comments: Actually, if anything, I think I more likely picked up on your comments. I think that relationship you had with your uncle is wonderful. I can imagine the pride with which you tell that story (quite apart from the morality). If I was telling that, my eyes would go uncontrollably watery ( I tell anybody who notices that it's an age thing ). The strength of it is huge and it literally crosses boundaries. However, as you rightly say, that is unlikely to happen today. We could play around seven hundred games of chess in that same time span and we could talk to the favourite uncle face to face on our computer or our phone out in the middle of the West Australian desert. In fact, if we wished, the computer could supply an uncle. As I said, time and progress has moved on exponentially.

I'm afraid the computer will be responsible for large changes in all languages. Just the way people text uses shortened forms of English that George Bernard Shaw could only dream about. We have to be careful of not falling into the same trap that parents, grandparents and great grandparents ad infinitum said about the new generation: Basically that we were losing all our principals.

I agree that children seem to be missing out on a great deal of life's social building blocks, but the question there is whether they are finding new blocks to substitute.

I am wandering off track a little, but I suppose it is all tied up in the convenience of the modern IT world. This is coming from a self-confessed dinosaur. I am the only person I know that does not have a mobile phone. I am weakening and hardening my heart is apparently no good for me.

Regards
Paul

Bushmiller wrote:

I am the only person I know that does not have a mobile phone.

Paul, if it makes you feel any better, I have owned an iPhone 6 for 2 years. Recently I changed the contract with Telstra. The person I dealt with was trying to sell me on the $1000 of free calls per month deal. I asked her whether she had a record of the number of calls I made last year (because I knew she would not believe me otherwise). I made 3 calls. I received about 5. All year. My phone is only for emergencies, and only the family have the number. Anyone else can leave a message on my office landline. I will call back when I am free. I hate bloody mobile phones. And I am intolerant in this regard. I find they are intrusive, and people who answer them in the middle of a conversation are just plain rude and ignorant. They are ignorant because they are unaware of being rude because it has become accepted by society that one does not have to wait until a later time. You can say "the question there is whether they are finding new blocks to substitute", and I will argue that will inevitably be a regressive step. There will be some further social skill or self-regulation loss. End of my rant.

Regards from Perth

Derek

Originally Posted by derekcohen

Bushmiller wrote:


Paul, if it makes you feel any better, I have owned an iPhone 6 for 2 years. Recently I changed the contract with Telstra. The person I dealt with was trying to sell me on the $1000 of free calls per month deal. I asked her whether she had a record of the number of calls I made last year (because I knew she would not believe me otherwise). I made 3 calls. I received about 5. All year. My phone is only for emergencies, and only the family have the number. Anyone else can leave a message on my office landline. I will call back when I am free. I hate bloody mobile phones. And I am intolerant in this regard. I find they are intrusive, and people who answer them in the middle of a conversation are just plain rude and ignorant. They are ignorant because they are unaware of being rude because it has become accepted by society that one does not have to wait until a later time. You can say "the question there is whether they are finding new blocks to substitute", and I will argue that will inevitably be a retrogressive step. There will be some further social skill or self-regulation loss. End of my rant.

Regards from Perth

Derek

My exact thoughts on mobiles, thanks Derek for saving me typing it out. Mine sits in the car and never gets looked at and the best thing I ever did was buy an Aldi pre paid service which lasts twelve months and took about five minutes to change too.

I flat out refuse to own one of those smart phony things but as I am a FIFO worker away for half the year I find that a mobile phone is very useful. For TALKING! Actually; I probably text a fair bit...

I don't Bookface; or chirp/squawk of that Twit thing; my phone has buttons and as every text message I send costs me a particular sum regardless of the number of characters I try to utilise every single one to get the most value. Drives my Beloved and our daughter nuts because they are sending me message after message consisting of 2 or three words and I'm still composing my Magnum Opus to the first. All phones and tablets are BANNED from the dinner table! Apparantly I'm a dinosaur; a Grumpisaurus Rex?

I hardly ever give the number out and practically never to any companies. If they "need" a number I give them 0404 404 040.

And in the spirit of this thread; this post is in lieu of a "like" to both Derek and Paul's posts regarding how they feel about the insidious manner mobile phones (and by extension; tablets) are intruding and dominating other lives around us.