Thread: Ironbark medieval/rectory dining table

On to the varnish.

The legs and stretcher has has had two coats but this is where I'm hopeless at finishing. I lack patience sometimes and whilst the legs look good the top of the stretcher erupted with the second coat. Too thick a coat or too wet an undercoat and this happens. I've learnt this the hard way before and well I'm still learning the hard way. When varnish works it's great but. Furthermore, both coats were applied by spray, with varnish mixed with 10% turps. Nowhere else reacted like this. Further coats on all pieces will be rolled and tipped using foam roller and bristle brush.
WP_20180329_17_33_51_Pro.jpg

Not long after the first spray on the top.
WP_20180329_17_34_48_Pro.jpg WP_20180329_17_35_26_Pro.jpg

After the varnish had settled a while.

WP_20180329_18_02_38_Pro.jpg WP_20180329_18_01_03_Pro.jpg WP_20180329_18_01_41_Pro.jpg

And some night shots with flash. And finally this is where I'm up to.
WP_20180329_19_32_18_Pro.jpg WP_20180329_19_32_46_Pro.jpg

For the uninformed, ie me, what do you mean by this?

320 sanding with long boards

Originally Posted by IanW

You've managed to make a silk purse out a bunch of sow's ears, Canoath! Who would've thought that table was hiding amongst a pile of firewood!? It did take a bit of work to find it, though!

But this pic made me wince a bit.


A long, cross-grain glue-joint like that is begging for trouble, particularly as this table is going to cop some pretty broad seasonal changes living outdoors. You really only needed the bolts to locate the top, imo, the glue wasn't necessary - with all that weight it isn't likely to go anywhere. Wracking will be your biggest worry, but if there are good-sized shoulders on the stretcher & the wedges are kept tight, it should be ok....

Cheers,

Ian is right here . No doubt about it . Your table is coming along really well . But this join is a head butt in the face of common Cabinet and Joinery building practice. It will self destruct. It always has and always will do . That junction needs to be able to handle some slight movement . The Top will expand and contract and glueing it to a piece of timber that wont will mean big problems.
Rob

Originally Posted by cava

For the uninformed, ie me, what do you mean by this?

Hi cava, I may have used the wrong terminology here, maybe fairing boards would be the right term and 320 was just the grit size. They're just long boards that hold long lengths of sandpaper cut from rolls and the boards usually have thin foam to pad the paper. I've got two 300mm long by 100mm wide ones and one 450mm thin one, all store bought and I usually use rolls of white no-fill aluminium oxide paper.
image.jpg

Hi Rob, it's disheartening to hear and reading your post and Ian's again reminds me of similar warnings when I was researching my workbench build a few years back. I just completely forgot about it because I haven't done any woodwork for ages nor had experience building anything with this kind of join really. I appreciate the input, I've never had anything but supportive advice on WWF so thanks again. I'll pass it on to the couple that own it and see if they want to remedy it now or see how it goes. It's not beyond me to remove these supports safely and either reuse or remake but I'll let you all know what happens.

WHat a great thread Canoath! You are a natural-born woodworker, in my view.

Your friends will have a table that will get passed down through the generations that's for sure. I hope you get well paid for the massive amount of work you put into it. I loved those rustic pegs with the knobbly ends you made and the shape of those legs.

I note the Ryobi surfacer in your photos. Did the boards get machined through that? Surely not!

That photo of the grain shown in your breadboards is interesting. I had a painted piece of timber recently measuring 66mm by 45mm that weighed like lead. When I put it through the thicknesser it had exactly the same grain as your breadboard ends. Could be nothing other than ironbark up here.

I see that the Botecote was only a filler and sealer as you had to apply a varnish over the top.

Did you get a lot of personal satisfaction from the project?

Where did you purchase that long sanding board shown in the photo?

Originally Posted by Canoath

.......I'll pass it on to the couple that own it and see if they want to remedy it now or see how it goes. It's not beyond me to remove these supports safely and either reuse or remake but I'll let you all know what happens....

There are no certainties in woodwork, Canoath - we can only say what's likely to happen. Given the slightly plastic nature of PVA glues (when warm, particularly) and the low-porosity finish you applied, you might not have trouble for years, or possibly at all. When the glue does come under stress, it may give enough to relieve it, in which case all will be fine because the bolts should have enough give in them to hold the line. If the glue strength does exceed the wood's capacity to absorb the strain, the top will crack/split along any lines of weakness - time will tell. Sorry to cause you angst, I hesitated to point it out at first, but it's probably better to be prepared, just in case! In my ignorance, I made a couple of classic blunders (like glueing the panels into frame & panel doors ) when I started out. Some took a while to show me the error of my ways, but most did eventually. As they say, experience is a bad teacher because it gives you the lesson after the test.

I could never convince my old pot that you can't stop wood from moving if it really wants to. One of the last significant pieces he made was a table for my youngest sister, from some Yellow Stringy he'd cut on the farm. Despite my advise to the contrary, he glued three wide, solid battens across the underside, and no mucking about with wimpy PVA glue for him, he stuck those suckers real good, with Araldite, and added about 50 screws to each for good measure. Fortunately, my sister is into 'shabby chic' and thinks the several large, longitudinal splits in her table are terribly 'authentic'. The top of that table is only about 17mm thick, to keep the weight within manageable bounds, & I'm not sure he waited the minimum "year per inch thickness" before starting construction, but it sure makes a classic illustration of what not to do to a table top.

Cheers,

Thanks kidbee, geez I dunno about natural-born woodworker, but ok I'll take it. LOL. Nah honestly, anyone could sand this timber and get the same reactions in my opinion. It has taken a lot of work I suppose but yes it has been enjoyable so I can't relate to the work up to this point as a chore of any kind. As for satisfaction, after every step or at the end of a day working on it I've kicked back with a drink and stare at what I've done from different angles with the radio or podcast playing in headphones. It's funny how I'm not interested in using or even owning the table, I just like looking at it.

There's no money involved in this project either. Well some coronas and smoked ham has exchanged hands so far but they supplied materials pretty much and I took it on as a learning experience and to help out.

Regarding the Ryobi thicknesser/planer, no. It was way too light duty for the timber. If I remember correctly there were perhaps two boards that were the best that two of us tried to feed through the thicknesser. They constantly got stuck, the machine only produced powder, not shavings. The machine tripped a few times too even on new blades despite trying to set for minimum thickness. I did a review on this machine a while back and said I don't think it would do the advertised "up to 3mm" on any timber. It has served me well on tas oak, vic ash and cypress pine, but multiple fine passes is what's needed to get the job done. But it's also so darn loud I'd rather dimension timber on saws then hand plane. I've had redgum shavings from this machine before but ironbark is just too hard. So everything was done via table saw, band saw with some electric and hand planing to joint edges then after glue-up, router to finish before heavy sanding.

About the sanding boards, the long one was picked up at an independent tool shop in Wagga Wagga a couple years back called Rogers Tools and More. Whilst googling I found Supercheap has a toledo brand 400mm long. Looking at their site it looks exactly like mine so I'm guessing mines 400mm not 450. I've got two of those red plastic ones which were bought from bunnings a few years ago too. Did a lot of sanding on gyprock joints when I lined my shed before they were put in to use as woodworking tools.

Originally Posted by IanW

Sorry to cause you angst, I hesitated to point it out at first, but it's probably better to be prepared,

Not at all Ian, I really appreciate it. I regret not doing a WIP as that way someone may have given me a precautionary warning or asked about what my plans were to attach legs. I've been doing a lot of reading since, in a way trying to find a solid reputable statement that says something like "epoxy encapsulation will prevent movement", and it doesn't exist. On the other hand I hold a similar hope that what your second sentence says will hold true in regards to low porosity finish and flexibility of PVA. Furthermore I spent time last night looking at the underside wondering exactly how I'd remove that timber. I know a few ways how I'd attach those supports to allow movement now but I'm not sure I can remove them without being destructive to them despite stating my confidence earlier. Whatever I read it keeps coming back to your last paragraph of first hand experiences of doing it the wrong way. Not just tabletops but other things like paneled doors you mentioned too.

I have a question for yourself or anyone. I really don't want to remove the breadboard ends but would you expect an issue from these as well given their orientation to the rest of the boards? Wish I did a sliding dovetail or T&G now, no bolts and minimal glue in the middle only.

Originally Posted by Canoath

........ I really don't want to remove the breadboard ends but would you expect an issue from these as well given their orientation to the rest of the boards? Wish I did a sliding dovetail or T&G now, no bolts and minimal glue in the middle only.......

Well, Canoath, I was going to say something about your method of securing the breadboards, but decided you might think I was just being picky!

A T&G, pegged in the centre, is a more traditional way of fitting breadboard ends, that's for sure. Screwing them on with coach screws is a bit less sophisticated, but in fact, you may get away with that one. If the holes in the breadboard are a bit loose, that plus the flex in the bolt shafts could well be enough to accommodate movement of the top boards. Again, time will be the jury, but take heart from the fact that lots of workbenches (including my own) have very hefty end boards held onto pretty solid tops with buried bolts. My bench has remained sound for over 30 years, during which time it's lived in three different climates, but there's been no sign of problems with the end boards.

OTH, I made a table top with breadboard ends from some Jacaranda, about 9 or 10 years back. The top is 950mm wide and the ends are pegged from underneath, in the centre only. At the driest time of the year, the ends stick out about 6mm either side, while at the wettest (about now), the top hangs over by a couple of mm. It serves as a daily reminder to me that wood is a hygroscopic material, & moves with the seasons!

Cheers,

To say the least I would call this a bothersome build!! Magnificent effort!bravabravabrava

Thanks artme.

Originally Posted by IanW

Well, Canoath, I was going to say something about your method of securing the breadboards, but decided you might think I was just being picky!

Fair enough, though lessons learned. I've wanted to build smaller items of fine furniture for nearly 10years and but haven't been game enough. This table just had to be a rustic warts and all entertainment table but I got carried away trying to see what was possible. Actually the ends were an after thought to add length so now at 2635mm x 955 allows 4 either side and two at the ends to allow enough room without elbows touching. If the boards didn't have to be trimmed so much I wouldn't have added the ends but they do look good. I'll have time later this week to keep varnishing and wait to hear back from the owners.

Originally Posted by cava

For the uninformed, ie me, what do you mean by this? “320 sanding with long boards”

Hi Cava

Long boards are also long flexible sanding pads used by shipwrights to fare the curved hulls of wooden boats. Generally they have a handle towards each end and may be a metre long, or more. I have seen them up to about 2.5 metes, wielded by two very sturdy men; they are hard work!



Cheers

Graeme

Originally Posted by Canoath

This table just had to be a rustic warts and all entertainment table but I got carried away trying to see what was possible.

And that IS the whole point! There's rustic (which this is not, I don't think - you applied finish(es)), there's Shabby Chic (which I'm not quite sure I understand - did it used to look good and now looks like shight?), and then there's a different/new genre: trying to get the best result from recycled/ancient timber - needs love and care - whilst preserving the ancientness. Not quite sure what to call it yet, but my current projects are using timber of a similar background to these sleepers (fence palings in my case). Today's item was actually filled with Aqua-Coat before applying the finish. A beautifully smooth fence paling (4x) panel. So Ian, I'm back top my old tricks, and I am most comfortable! The first-use Blackwood was just an aberration.

I hope at least one of them is an excellent cook, because my reckoning says that as you are not being paid for your (extensive) labour then you are entitled to dinner once per fortnight at said table, for a minimum of 12 months! On a woodworking learning curve you say? Would you not be prepared to partake of Cook's new (previously untried) recipe?

Canoath, my all time favourite table is a refectory table by Australian maker Leon Sadubin. Worth a Goggle.

What smaller pieces of fine furniture manfacture did you have in mind?