Thread: Philosophical points of view

Originally Posted by Woodwould

Fashions and fads come and go in all aspects of life from attire to music to architecture to cars to furniture, but with all, certain looks, sounds and genres endure.

I was going to make a similar point, but my reply was already a bit long-winded. As you say, WW., domestic fashions come & go like other art forms, with some elements carried over, others droppped or submerged. Few styles (if any) have completely disappeared (elements of Egyptian & Greek origin persist), but some styles have been produced steadily in low volumes (with varying degrees of "authenticity"), with the occasionaal resurgence, either in original or modified form. Whether this is due entirely to the intrinsic aesthetic qualities of a style or other factors isn't always clear. The early 1700s saw the beginning of the 'middle classes' and was the time when many of the items we now find 'esential' first appeared in a scale suitable for 'ordinary' houses. So you could also say they've been around longer, to be copied more often...

Originally Posted by Woodwould

It's no surprise that Victorian and Edwardian tastes have not made a comeback.

Hmmm, I suspect that's a deliberate challenge, so I'll take the bait..... Victorian tastes weren't all dreadful! And they certainly haaven't gone away. I think if you take a stroll down to any place dealing with just about any form of interior decoration, you'll see a few William Morris designs jumping out at you in some form or other. And Arts & Craft style has hung in there, with a big revival through the 70s & 80s. Of course you can argue that Arts & crafts owes much to mediaeval styles, but the styles of the 18thC have ancient pedigrees, too.

Now I'm not suggesting you have infantacidal tendencies, WW, but you may have some sympathies with an old friend of mine who once proclaimed that every would-be composer after Mozart should have been strangled at birth (& I'm not sure he was joking ). But many would agree there have been a few tolerable tunes written since 1800! And a few pieces of wood have been cobbled together in styles I could live with, since then, too......

(But NOT in slabs, now there's a 'style' I detest...... )

Cheers,

Originally Posted by IanW

Hmmm, I suspect that's a deliberate challenge, so I'll take the bait.....

It was and I knew you'd scoop up the glove. As we've agreed before, some Victorian (and other generally detestable periods) furniture wasn't all bad, but it wouldn't amount to more than about 10% of the total.
I concede to the sporadic popularity of William Morris and also Liberty designs.

Originally Posted by IanW

Now I'm not suggesting you have infantacidal tendencies, WW, but you may have some sympathies with an old friend of mine who once proclaimed that every would-be composer after Mozart should have been strangled at birth (& I'm not sure he was joking ). But many would agree there have been a few tolerable tunes written since 1800! And a few pieces of wood have been cobbled together in styles I could live with, since then, too......

I am in full accordance with your friend, but I am also a great fan of much more modern individual and collaborative music too, though I don't consider it 'composed' in the same sense.

Originally Posted by IanW

(But NOT in slabs, now there's a 'style' I detest...... )

Cheers,

Agreed. Slab constructions should not constitute furniture in anyone's language! It's off-topic, so I won't bring up pen turning.

Agreed. Slab constructions should not constitute furniture in anyone's language! It's off-topic, so I won't bring up pen turning.[/QUOTE]


Now,now WW!!!


This ought to spark some controversy.

I happen to admire slab furniture! This is particularly so where the true beauty of the timber can only be fully appreciated by using a slab. I recall a magnificent slab of Bubinga that was shown on the forums. In my opinion to cut that into jigsaw puzzle pieces would be cause for a parliamentary in quirey, or better still an inquisition.

What reasons do you, and your mate Ian W., have to decry slabs furniture of to regard it as not being furniture?

Stand and deliver!!!

Originally Posted by artme

Stand and deliver!!!

OK, Roune One-

Originally Posted by artme

................This is particularly so where the true beauty of the timber can only be fully appreciated by using a slab. :

Um, wouldn't there be even more to appreciate if it were sliced into veneers???

Originally Posted by artme

What reasons do you, and your mate Ian W., have to decry slabs furniture of to regard it as not being furniture?

Can't speak for me mate (he will no doubt find his own voice ) but I dislike it for 3 particular reasons:

1. What a waste of a limited resource! It breaks my heart to see a whole bookcase's worth of good cabinet grade wood used up in a single table. (OTH, it will be a useful source of material for future woodies, I suppose..... )

2. More often than not, dubious construction methods and generally poor finish display the limited skills of the maker rather than 'the beauty of the wood'.

3. If you look beyond the wood itself, most of what I've seen is butt-ugly & ill-proportioned. Add to that, those wany edges that are not particularly user-friendly.

That'll do for starters....
Cheers,

Many years ago, as an apprentice, I was under the watchful eye of an exceptionally good tradesman, who, to date, I have not seen surpassed. Whenever we lads would start to get a bit too opinionated, he would suggest we go and have a good s**t and get rid of it.
There are fors and against for all styles of furniture. Just because someone has a particular preferance for one style, doesn't mean that they have to denigrate all others. Such outbursts only point to insecurity.

What a load of tripe.

Look deeper not just at the top class furniture.

As for pen turners comment get over yourselves. I do turn pens but not constantly like artme does. Even days of old there was scribes, spinners, weavers, even kids toys all who benefited from off cuts even kindling to stoke fires with. Just look at WW's jigsaw puzzle work within his amazing repoductions/forgery attempts.

A slab was/is often cut into planks even way back so that period tables were made whats the difference tis still been a slab. Trees of old were big enough and they used to make slab tables of large wide slabs/planks. Today what we regard as slabs they'd laugh and think us nutters for even comdenplating using such tiny bits. Why even our foor boards look like tooth picks in comparison.

Verneers produced because people saw they could spread the look about and get more for their money and fool the buyers into believing it was all one solid piece. Verneers are used to hide carp wood under and dress it up charge tripple the price.

Wood was used so much during the periods we are discussing you can not comment just on furniture it has to encompase life as it was at the time. Ship building, building, carriage building, construction even war. Images of Queen Victoria period uses of wood remember this was a new age of industrial technology as was Edwardian also the wars duiring these two periods.


Gee I recall artmes last visit OS to where he is now and taking photos of a wood pile all he saw was fire wood. Didn't even check it out closely he could have had some rare pen turning material for years, or fine gobblets for months, bobbin lace bobbins. Fine verneers even.

Originally Posted by IanW

OK, Roune One-




Um, wouldn't there be even more to appreciate if it were sliced into veneers???



Can't speak for me mate (he will no doubt find his own voice ) but I dislike it for 3 particular reasons:

1. What a waste of a limited resource! It breaks my heart to see a whole bookcase's worth of good cabinet grade wood used up in a single table. (OTH, it will be a useful source of material for future woodies, I suppose..... )

2. More often than not, dubious construction methods and generally poor finish display the limited skills of the maker rather than 'the beauty of the wood'.

3. If you look beyond the wood itself, most of what I've seen is butt-ugly & ill-proportioned. Add to that, those wany edges that are not particularly user-friendly.

That'll do for starters....
Cheers,

That's pretty well covered it.

I don't object to the sort of slab furniture that incorporates a split or a large inclusion (apparently known as a 'feature' in slab furniture-making circles) because other than heating the workshop, it's of no useful purpose to a cabinetmaker or for making veneer.

Originally Posted by rustynail

Many years ago, as an apprentice, I was under the watchful eye of an exceptionally good tradesman, who, to date, I have not seen surpassed. Whenever we lads would start to get a bit too opinionated, he would suggest we go and have a good s**t and get rid of it.
There are fors and against for all styles of furniture. Just because someone has a particular preferance for one style, doesn't mean that they have to denigrate all others. Such outbursts only point to insecurity.

Rusty nail my " load of tripe" was pointed not at you but at those above your comment.

You had a wise old teacher and obviously have an eye and open mind to the topic.

Originally Posted by Woodwould

That's pretty well covered it.

I don't object to the sort of slab furniture that incorporates a split or a large inclusion (apparently known as a 'feature' in slab furniture-making circles) because other than heating the workshop, it's of no useful purpose to a cabinetmaker or for making veneer.

Hum incorrect as it still would have been used but the fault would have been disgarded waste was not a happening thing back then and a mastercraftsman would have been able to fix such in an instant with the knowladge he had shame the same thing doesn't hapen today.

Originally Posted by wheelinround

What a load of tripe.

Look deeper not just at the top class furniture.

As for pen turners comment get over yourselves. I do turn pens but not constantly like artme does. Even days of old there was scribes, spinners, weavers, even kids toys all who benefited from off cuts even kindling to stoke fires with. Just look at WW's jigsaw puzzle work within his amazing repoductions/forgery attempts.

A slab was/is often cut into planks even way back so that period tables were made whats the difference tis still been a slab. Trees of old were big enough and they used to make slab tables of large wide slabs/planks. Today what we regard as slabs they'd laugh and think us nutters for even comdenplating using such tiny bits. Why even our foor boards look like tooth picks in comparison.

Verneers produced because people saw they could spread the look about and get more for their money and fool the buyers into believing it was all one solid piece. Verneers are used to hide carp wood under and dress it up charge tripple the price.

Wood was used so much during the periods we are discussing you can not comment just on furniture it has to encompase life as it was at the time. Ship building, building, carriage building, construction even war. Images of Queen Victoria period uses of wood remember this was a new age of industrial technology as was Edwardian also the wars duiring these two periods.


Gee I recall artmes last visit OS to where he is now and taking photos of a wood pile all he saw was fire wood. Didn't even check it out closely he could have had some rare pen turning material for years, or fine gobblets for months, bobbin lace bobbins. Fine verneers even.

Wheel, your post reads like one of those email falsehoods that Snopes debunks.

Originally Posted by wheelinround

... a mastercraftsman would have been able to fix such in an instant with the knowladge he had shame the same thing doesn't hapen today.

How do you "fix" bark?

Originally Posted by Woodwould

How do you "fix" bark?

I got the answer to that one in an anonymous letter in my letter box the other day , it said "tell your dog to shut up."
Regards

Originally Posted by A Duke

I got the answer to that one in an anonymous letter in my letter box the other day , it said "tell your dog to shut up."
Regards

A friend of mine received a similar letter. The difference being the letter was addressed to "The Dog Nextdoor." My friend showed the letter to his pooch who took not the slightest notice.
Back on subject. Each style of furniture has opportunity to use different woodworking techniques. They also present differing asthetic qualities which can broaden ones artistic appreciation. Yes, there are styles which display what appears to be superior craftsmanship, but that is not to say that a tradesman of another period may not be skilled enough to do the same. Furniture was and still is made for a market. Market forces wax and wane. Affluent times produce affluent furniture and less affluent times can produce "effluient" furniture. That does not have to reflect on the style, more a reflection on quality.
The fact that WW has a preferance, or should I say marriage, (foresaking all others,) for one particular period, doesn't mean that we must humbly follow suit. Beauty has and always will be, in the eye of the beholder.

Originally Posted by Woodwould

Wheel, your post reads like one of those email falsehoods that Snopes debunks.

Yep but when one eyed people can't see the wood for the trees.

Falsehoods best you go through some history old fella and as I said come down to all levels. Wood was not wasted during any of these periods. I also had good teachers who new and were taught by greater teachers of the wood arts.

Bark well it was often used also depending on the type woven into baskets, and Bark - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Products used by people that are derived from bark include: spices and other flavorings, tanbark for tannin, resin, latex, medicines, poisons, various hallucinatory chemicals and cork. Bark has been used to make cloths, canoes, ropes and used as a surface for paintings and map making.[2] A number of plants are also grown for their attractive or interesting bark colorations and surface textures or their bark is used as landscape mulch.[3][4]