Thread: Post & Beam Timber Frame Garage

Give these guys a call. They should be able to help you out with all your questions.

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Regards

Dane

Can't help with a lot of your questions, however we have a cypress pine mill at Hastings on the Mornington Peninsula that mills to order. PM me if you want the details.

I tend to get smaller pieces and offcuts from them and have not noticed any twist when drying, and splitting is minimal when the usual precautions are taken.

Before I did anything I would get it drawn up with all property boundaries and run it past someone in council.

Originally Posted by Chris Parks

Before I did anything I would get it drawn up with all property boundaries and run it past someone in council.

Yeah, that's the plan. I'm drawing it all up right now and will send it to the surveyor this week to see what he says. In my area the council doesn't want to give any advice or do any of the permit stuff themselves; they direct you to speak to a building surveyor for the whole permit process.

Yep, a lot of that going on. Building inspections for renos and new houses are all done by contractors to our council I believe.

In Victoria, check the title to your property to see if 'In Fee Simple' is listed on your title.

If it, is look up the meaning in a Law Dictionary such as Butterworths/Blacks etc, and then make up your own mind.

years ago I went to a talk from a guy who built traditional timber frame buildings. Although the talk was predominately about the tools he used, what stood out was that the basic frame and joints was cut and test assembled off site -- in a large shed.

in response to your questions / thoughts

Originally Posted by DomAU

So the plan is; 2.9m x 7.5m salt-box style frame with 4 bents and a king-post design - overall height about 3.6m. 150x150mm posts & rafters, and 200x100mm tie-beam and wall plates and probably 90x90mm purlins etc. All in Australian Cypress. Mainly 3/4" pegs probably from Oak. Tenons predominantly 1.5" width.

the post and beam builds I'm familiar with are just like a piece of furniture -- only bigger.
Tenons are the approx 1/3 of the timber width as found on a table apron to leg joint.
Dovetails are common way to lock-in a cross member to resist tension -- which should be much stronger than a 3/4" peg.

So I've started doing some drawings and calculations in the hope that I can get a surveyor to get on board regarding a permit etc and that might be a show-stopper. Even if that works out, I have only started to realize that this little project may be more difficult than I expected for a couple of reasons;

Originally Posted by DomAU

1. material handling - I'm planning on using primarily 150x150mm cypress posts and 200x100mm beams but working on my own I realise it may be difficult to move these around and do test-fits etc. I can get help when raising, but otherwise primarily on my own in the evenings and probably one day each weekend (no annual leave left for this project). Has anyone tried something similar? Any tips or advise for handling large timbers on my own? I'll be working in my 2.5 car garage.

you could build the horizontal components of the fame supported on saw horses and use an engine crane to handle the timbers.

Originally Posted by DomAU

The only specific tooling I'm acquiring for this task is a 1.5" Barr Framing chisel, a Festool HK 85 circular saw (for wasting out the tenon cheeks and cutting beams and posts to length etc) and some auger bits for helping waste out the large mortises. Trying not to invest in too much specific tooling as this is likely to be a one-off job I'm not getting into timber framing. I do have a japanese ink-line, squares, regular chisels, hand-planes etc (though I realise a large rebate plane would be handy for cleaning up tenons etc).

One immediate question - I'm worried about drilling accurately through 150mm (prob 140mm once dressed) beams with an electric hand drill or brace for the 1.5" mortises. I'm not sure if I should order a 1 1/4" or 1 3/8" auger bit so that it gives me some margin for error but on the flip side means more chisel work? If so, should I go with 1 1/4 or 1 3/8" ? I can't seem to find 1.5" bits anywhere so that isn't even an option at the moment.

Or is there a smarter way to hog out the large mortises acurately, without buying a chain-saw mortiser?

a chain morticer is possibly a better investment than the Festool HK85. Almost any saw will cut the tenon shoulders and cut stuff to length, but chopping the mortises will be the killer time wise. I'm not even sure where you could source the long post and beam mortice chisels you would need.

also, given the section sizes, a small chain saw might also be desirable.

Thanks Ian,

Already ordered the HK so no going back on that. My primary reason for this was to minimise dust as much as possible as im likely to be cutting in my garage due to restrictions moving the beams in / out etc. Every other circ saw i could see had no dust collection / ports at all.

Mortiser is just waaaay too expensive at $2600+ on gumtree or $4500 new.

The barr framing chisel i have coming has a 7.5" long blade and overall length around 425mm (and 1.4kg!) So will do the job, albeit with some muscular support.

Reading around it seems in timber framing a 4:1 ratio of beam to tenon width is most commonly used.

Yes, I was planning to use wedged-dovetail tenons for many of the tension joints. Dowels just for extra piece of mind for those.

I was planning on installing a panel door at the front to match the adjacent garage but that's just opened a heap of issues and it looks like I'd have to use 190mm front posts. But then of course both cost and weight go up yet again.

What started as a simple project in my mind is quickly spiraling in complexity and uncertainty!

Most circular saw have a dust port and dust adaptors available to connect the port to a bag or an extractor hose. Some even come with the saws.
I was able to get one for my 25 year old Makita.

Originally Posted by Lappa

Most circular saw have a dust port and dust adaptors available to connect the port to a bag or an extractor hose. Some even come with the saws.
I was able to get one for my 25 year old Makita.

Yeah ok. I didnt realise. I just saw what looked to be small oval/rectangular ports on some and didnt even think that adaptors etc might be available. Too late in any case. I should have asked the question earlier.

Hey Dom, I checked out your pergola and am really looking forward to seeing this project happen! I've got a tool recommendation that I don't think has been mentioned yet, it's known as a "beam boring machine". Its a compromise between a portable chain mortiser and doing all the work with a hand held drill and then going back and squaring the mortise. I have had experience using one of these in the USA and found it to be very accurate and surprisingly efficient. Here is a link to one taking on an Oak beam https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tYC0pVW1hjk, looks like you could skip the gym after a few hours of that. Just a really awesome, enjoyable tool that bores large holes quickly and accurately and some models even have a depth stop!
I have some timber framing projects on the go and was wondering how you are finding the HK85?? I have the cross-cutting rail but haven't gotten around to the saw yet. Also where did you source your Barr chisel from,
Nicko

Originally Posted by nicaboo799

Hey Dom, I checked out your pergola and am really looking forward to seeing this project happen! I've got a tool recommendation that I don't think has been mentioned yet, it's known as a "beam boring machine". Its a compromise between a portable chain mortiser and doing all the work with a hand held drill and then going back and squaring the mortise. I have had experience using one of these in the USA and found it to be very accurate and surprisingly efficient. Here is a link to one taking on an Oak beam https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tYC0pVW1hjk, looks like you could skip the gym after a few hours of that. Just a really awesome, enjoyable tool that bores large holes quickly and accurately and some models even have a depth stop!
I have some timber framing projects on the go and was wondering how you are finding the HK85?? I have the cross-cutting rail but haven't gotten around to the saw yet. Also where did you source your Barr chisel from,
Nicko

Hi Nicko,

Yeah a boring machine would be great but I haven't seen any available for sale in Australia. At the moment I plan to use a combination of hand power drill, chisels and maybe even router. If the first few mortises don't go easily I'll probably just buy a chain mortiser and sell it when I'm done.

I only used the HK85 on a small pergola recently and it was great. Pretty heavy but works extremely well. Not much else to say really.

I ordered my Barr chisels from Classichandtools and loghomestore.com . I recently added a corner chisel and slick . IMG_20180524_213814_423.jpg

Timber is scheduled for delivery today. I'm anxious and hope it's straight and square at least!

What is your upcoming project?

Cheers, Dom

So just got the first delivery of Macrocarpa this afternoon. Things just got 2.5 cubic meters of real .

Timber looks ok but posts are not all very square - will need to actually apply some timber framing layout know-how that I don't yet know-how haha. Hopefully this doesn't end up as an epic fail!

IMG_20180606_181750_310.jpg

IMG_20180606_181750_319.jpg

IMG_20180606_181750_322.jpg

Cheers, Dom

Wow, that's some serious wood. Hope you ate your Wheat Bix.