Thread: table design questions

Mitre them and once the glue is dry drop some long screws/coach bolts in top and bottom.

Sounds like a good idea! will see how accurately the scms can cut! I've dialled it in as well as I can and have it cutting square 90s. have an accurate digital inclinometer to set angles.

That looks a very interesting design and the frame wouldn’t be too hard to make.

Probably the “modern” way to make those joints would be by using Dominos, but that tool is well out of your budget.

Dowels would work, you would need to use a lot of them and you’d have to come up with an angled jig for drilling them.

If you have a router perhaps a loose tenon in routed mortises, similar to what a Domino does?

However, if I was making this I believe I would use big half blind dovetail joints. A router would do much of the donkey work in waste removal but isn’t necessary, although you might get a bit fed up chiselling out such a large amount! You’d need a pair of left and right skew chisels to get into the bottom corners but you can convert a pair of cheap 3/8” or 1/2” bevel edged chisels into skews just using a grinder. And if your joinery isn’t perfect, epoxy can be used to fill the gaps.

Might be worth looking at Paperock for the top. Very durable, strong, nice color. Will last a lot longer than most other plywood options. There is a solid version or a laminated version onto a good quality plywood.

I'm assuming you sent the table that arrived cracked back, no ?

I’d be welding the base up and covering It in re sawn 5mm glued on facings / veneers . That will last and your kids can give it to their kids . I’ve seen such tables bases done in wood and know they can’t last long . No matter how you join the two ends up . They will fail . If you went with 50mm or 75mm and finished it as thick as possible. And maybe did it 125 wide . Then did the strongest finest dovetails . You may get 40 to 80 years treated reasonably carefully . It’s still going to get loose though . If you do it with the Bunnings wood I think dovetail would be best followed by butt join it , screw through that . Either cap the holes or cover the outsides white a thin planed or sawn veneer to cover them up . Some extra bracing would be nice somewhere . It changes the look but would be a great help .

Deleted. Apparently I'm not worthy of having a dissenting opinion.

Originally Posted by elanjacobs

Solid timber facings will almost certainly warp and crack/break off, you simply can't hold one side fixed and expect the other side not to move; been there, done that.

Well you must have still had your L plates hanging around your neck when you were doing it and still had some more learning ahead of you .

If what you were saying was true then Plywood would not hold together. Thin facings or veneers are controlled by the ground they are layed to . The facing doesn't control the ground . Left out in the weather the wood on steel would have problems pretty quickly. Done properly and looked after it lasts. Just look into how acoustic guitars are made . They break a lot of cabinet makers rules. I built one,they break every rule in the book about furniture construction by being very smart about it . You don't leave them outdoors either.

Something like 19mm thick timber in a decent width glued to steel has enough of its own strength to give the glue line some big trouble indoors. 5mm doesn't have that strength 8mm doesn't either.

Certainly not done correctly it fails . Ive seen plenty of things gone wrong by glueing up stuff the wrong way. You have to have a deeper understanding of whats going on . Dry wood , thin, onto clean sanded steel, with a good glue , sealed and polished , left in a house with a good roof and windows . No problems. Even with heating and air conditioning that will shrink the solid top .

Originally Posted by elanjacobs

I've made quite a few tables with a similar design and, short of being dropped, mitred and screwed/bolted is plenty strong enough. It's not indestructible, but it won't break unless you try to.

Ive also repaired every thing that's ever been built badly ,the Antique part of my life. The worst of their kind never make it to a repair shop . They were thrown out a long time ago . Whole periods of bad design disappear forever. Sometimes only showing up in paintings or drawings from centuries back. That design is a bad idea and wont last 20 years treated like the average table. I just wouldn't build it totally out of wood because of that . I'm not telling anyone else not to build the dumb thing . Just giving some expert advice for free.

Welded steel base, sanded and covered in thin 8mm Oak . Glued down with Techniglue . Sanded , stained , sealed with Oil based sanding sealer , shellac and beeswax on top of that . Delivered in 2011 . Came back to me a few months ago for some attention to the top and the polish. Top had moved, its 50mm thick . No problems with the base at all . Very strong design .
IMG_6639.JPGIMG_6676.jpg
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Originally Posted by minidriver

Trying to keep it reasonably cheap

Legs to be made from bunnings tassy oak in 135*32, and the stringer from 65*32 bunnings tassy oak.

Main question is, how to do the joins for the leg frames.

Im not trying to talk you into welding .
I'll go a bit further into what I said before
I reckon fast and cheap is to screw it . Then fill and cover the screw holes with timber. You could reduce the sides first by the amount you will be glueing back on later to get back a balanced look. And you could do the three parts of each base, the two legs and the one bottom from 32mm . But do the top from 45 thick . Its under the top and not seen unless you get down for a look . It gives your better space for the type of screwing that needs to be done . = Better bracing. You'd want to be staggering the screws so there is a lower and a higher line to each joint . The thicker top piece means a bigger space between those lines of screws.

These spots show what I mean for drilling positions through the legs into the rails. You could cut the wood and actually but join it all up with glue in clamps and let it dry . When it comes out of clamps drill and counter sink for heads carefully . Use something like 100 or 125 bugle screws. Pre drilled hole all the way . Chuck some glue in the holes as well when screwing them home . The staggering makes a big difference to the strength. It helps prevent the joint pivoting and breaking the glue joint. If they are all in a straight line, once the glue joint breaks the wood pivots on the screw line . fill and cover with a full leg piece 4 or 5mm thick later. Plane back the excess and it wont be seen again

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Originally Posted by minidriver

These style legs are usually made of steel, never seen it done with wood before... am I dreaming in my hope to get strong joints here?

Yep. Well said.

We need a dining table - after having bought a lovely american walnut one from an online retailer which arrived cracked along the table top.

I am curious whether you kept or returned the Walnut table?

If you kept it, have you considered repairing the cracked top. It could look rather good with black butterflies along the crack.

Regards from Perth

Derek

Originally Posted by elanjacobs

Deleted. Apparently I'm not worthy of having a dissenting opinion.

Hey . That's cheating .


look at this .

I'm sorry, I went a bit far with the Apprentice line . Ill go delete it .

Rob

I wouldn't use dowels, I don't like them at all. I would use box joints, they offer lots of glue surface and the pattern would look nice and the angle is easier to mark out and achieve than dovetails.

I'd personally use something chunkier than 32mm but perhaps not as wide.

And come on guys, be nice to each other, we're allowed to have different opinions without feeling we have to delete our posts.

Not everything needs to be an heirloom piece. I'm already recycling pieces I've made in the past when I didn't know a better way to do it, I learnt from making it, I learnt from watching it fail and I learnt from building a replacement and I have no regrets.

I've seen this type of design a lot in timber. Heres a quick mock up of something which could workCapture.jpg

I believe this sort of design would have less racking. Also, rather then a single stretcher down the middle you can even have 2 on either side. Then, its basically an ordinary 4 legged table base, except the legs are connected on the bottom.

I believe it would also be safer to use 42mm timber for at least the vertical and horizontal part along the floor. Everything else could be 32.

Check out some building supply places near you that is not bunnings - they might have F17 hardwood (will come in 45mm thick) or just "dressed KDHW" at better prices than bunnings. The F17 hardwood will have rounded corners put you could cut it off with your track saw.

Joinery - quick and easy would be glue and fat screws. I know a couple of places which are using this:
Bostik AV515 Polyurethane Adhesive 300ml - Adhesives, Coatings & Sealants, Polyurethane Adhesives - Product Detail - CP Supplies
and this:
https://www.bunnings.com.au/zenith-1...-pack_p2420699

for essentially the exact same design. They mitre the corner and drive the screws in. Not fine furniture making but its how they make them for their business and sell plenty of them

Happy aftermath day peoples, thanks for all the replies! Astounded! Some great ideas too.

I did a mock-up of the bottom joint today - I have not done any 'woodwork' (ie not building decks or stairs or anything out of undressed wood) since um... 1990, when I made a pencil box at school? I was originally just going to buy some similar metal legs pre-welded, but I want to start wood working, and I've had enough of welding (restoring a 1971 mini which had copious amounts of rust). Also, I have a very limited budget and very limited tools - no table saw, no jointer planer or thicknesser, limited time (5 kids under 12), so yeh, not going to overthink this! Lasting longevity is not foremost as well, the kids seem to damage everything anyway!

So yeah - I attempted my first box joint today. I didn't take any during photos, it's tas oak (110*32mm), with box joints hand sawn and chiselled. 5 degree angle cut on my budget SCMS which I am thoroughly impressed with accuracy wise. I need to work on my markings accuracy for cutting the box joints, and some nicer chisels would be nice (using aldi ones!), but it's amazing what a bit of wood glue and sawdust hides! I got a bit excited and stained it walnutish before taking any photos also

If I can get all joints to at least this quality or greater, I will be happy.





With regards to the last walnut table, it was sent back for a refund, it wasn't the style that would suit bow tie repairs really.

Once again, thanks for the replies!

Tim