Thread: tightening up some old chairs

You could try this fix. Haven't used it myself but it sounds like it might solve your problem.

Originally Posted by LMHmedchem

I have a 50+ year old dining room set where the chairs are beginning to be quite loose. The design is quite light structurally, so I am concerned that if one of the joints go with someone sitting on the chair, the chair will be destroyed. I know that these have been re-glued before but the wood is getting old enough that I don't think that adding more carpenters glue will do much of anything.

Can someone get me started on what to do here? The back and back leg is a continuous piece that is attached to the seat with pegs. This is the joint that is loose. Should I try to get the chairs completely apart? What should I use for glue? Do I need to replace the pegs?

Please let me know if more information is necessary.

Can you post a photo ? or three

My initial thoughts are that you should try and get the loose joints apart.
Then the repair will likely require cleaning the dowel holes and new dowels.

I recently saw a fix but it does require the joint to be open. It requires the old hide glue to be removed first, then using a hand plane make some longer shavings from a similar timber to the chair. Then wrap a length of the shaving around the tenon section to increase the diameter of the tenon and then reglue using hide glue.
Lots of luck

Dinosour, That's a neat trick.

From the OP's post,

I know that these have been re-glued before but the wood is getting old enough that I don't think that adding more carpenters glue will do much of anything.

it's quite possible that a previous "repair" used 5 minute epoxy.

Originally Posted by ian

Dinosour, That's a neat trick.

From the OP's post,
it's quite possible that a previous "repair" used 5 minute epoxy.[/COLOR]

Quite possibly. Or contact adhesive, or PVA or Liquid Nails. Probably almost anything except what should have been used, hide glue.

Unless the designer has gone to great lengths to ensure that the chair can't rack by someone leaning back on it, pretty well any chair will eventually have loose joints. For this reason, hide glue is the preferred glue for chair joints as it can be easily separated (useful if only one joint goes) and is the only glue that will stick properly to itself, apart from, perhaps, epoxy, which isn't easily separated.

I'm following. I have half a dozen chairs, maybe 1920's, that need a fix. In fact, they are falling apart.
The very act of sitting on them is a little wiggle. That crushes the dowels and opens the holes.
I have no plans to use a modern glue which will not allow another repair in future.
AlexS knows this.

Believe I will do one chair, bulking up the dowels as Dinosour suggests.
A fine spoke shave ought to make the needed shavings.
They could be birch on walnut dowel, I can't see there's anything the least bit visible.

Thank you all for this discussion.

Originally Posted by Bohdan

You could try this fix. Haven't used it myself but it sounds like it might solve your problem.

I have use "Chair Doctor Glue" with some success. Like any repair the more you can dismantle without causing damage the better the repair is likely to be.

If you look/post in the restoration forums there are many people who have a lot of experience in this (i.e. more than me but I think all agree with the below and with AlexS). I have repaired many old chairs. Some have had mortise and tenon joints (the best) and others have had dowels. When someone has used an inappropriate adhesive - as in AlexS post above - the only long-term solution is to get the joint apart and clean it off completely. Dinosaur's suggestion can certainly work, but if the dowels are really loose in their holes I prefer new larger dowels and clean, suitably sized holes. I never have had to fiddle much with tenons, but have used a similar idea to Dinosaur's by inserting some shavings.

I'm also with AlexS on the only suitable adhesive for old chairs (and other old/antique furniture), which is hide glue. If you do not have a glue pot for 'pearl' hide glue you could use Titebond liquid hide glue (C-Tec etc. suppliers) which I use for small repairs and have had good success with. Hide-glue is not regarded as a gap-filling adhesive (though does work as such to some extent) so the tighter the fit the better. Hide gue joints can llast hundreds of years and have the wonderful advantage of reversibility if they loosen (or you stuff up) - just add hot water!

If the joints are loose but not damaged and especially if no nasty adhesives have been added (but even sometimes when they have) the use of hot water will help in disassembly. Use something to protect the nearby finish if you are not expert at finish repairs. Wax, petroleum jelly or grease that can later be removed with turps - or something physical like cling wrap/clear plastic (so you can see if water has penetrated under it) and tape.

Originally Posted by ian

Can you post a photo ? or three.

I will try to post some photos tonight or tomorrow. I am also in the process of repainting my snowblower and trying to get the finished before it starts to snow.

Originally Posted by ian

My initial thoughts are that you should try and get the loose joints apart.
Then the repair will likely require cleaning the dowel holes and new dowels.

I am pretty sure that nothing has ever been used to repair these other than regular carpenters wood glue. How would I go about getting the joints apart? Xanthorrhoea suggests using hot water. I will take off the seat and then would I just protect the chair as well as possible and poor boiling water in the joint? I am afraid of breaking the chairs more than anything.

I think the joints may be loose enough to get an oscillating saw blade in the joint and cut the dowels. This would be an easy and safe way to get the joints apart but I'm not sure how I would get the dowels out of the holes. I guess I would drill a small hole in the middle of each dowel and then try to get them out or break them apart.

Cutting the dowels, and then re-drilling the holes for the next size larger dowel seems like the only way to get good newly exposed wood on both side of the glue joint. There are many questions with this that worry me. In particular, how would I drill the new holes and insure that I have everything lined up properly. I think I would need some kind of jig for that to have any chance of getting it right. If I can get the old dowels out, that makes it a bit easier because I can probably use the old hole to center the piece on the drill press, clamp down the piece, and then switch to the larger bit.

Does the method I suggest make any sense at all? What would I use for a bit? Is a regular drill bit fine or do I need a drill bit followed by a reamer bit to create a perfectly round hole? What do I use for a dowel? It seems that hide glue is what is suggested but I have never used that before.

Originally Posted by Xanthorrhoeas

If you look/post in the restoration forums there are many people who have a lot of experience in this (i.e. more than me but I think all agree with the below and with AlexS).

It seems like there are many cases, like this one, where a thread should appear in more than one forum. I have always thought it made sense to allow a shortcut to appear in more than one thread, similar to what appears when a thread is moved. This would let the thread reside in one location (on the server) but give notification to users in other sub-forums who may want to provide input.

If the moderators think that this thread is more appropriate for the restoration forum, then perhaps it could be moved.

LMHmedchem