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  1. #46
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    Default Sorry, boring tec info.

    FYI: The Ready2Rout videos I posted show the alignment for bit zero using the widest part of the bit and a Touch plate. This is done by holding the touch plate between the front of the Fence and the back of the Bit while having the fence move forward until the touch plate hits the bit. I checked the manual and found that there are a number of steps to this procedure, and a number of settings that need to be changed before you can set the Home position? The normal Fence Home position is calculated to the centre of the Bit, so Touch plate thickness has to be initially setup and accounted for, accurate maximum Bit width has to measured and entered and these values are all used to calculate the Bit center position.

    Before I go on, fortunately the R2R fence does not appear to have much power, some users warn against pushing against the fence a little to hard and it will also stall easily, so in this case the way they measure Fence Zero or Home is likely not going to cause damage if something goes wrong. I'm not trying to say that what they are doing is wrong, but I don't like the idea of having the touch plate jammed between the fence and the bit at any time.

    Why? In my table the Fence motors (there are two) have current limit and the current is set as low as I can get it, but the motors are powerful and the screw drive reductions have a ton of torque multiplication, the result, the fence can break things, yes you can stall it but it's hard to do, and you can push as hard as you like against the fence once it's in the holding position, you will break something before you can move the fence. So putting a touch plate between this fence and the Bit is a very bad idea in my Router table, especially if you don't want to bend the touch plate or the BIT shank.

    However there is no reason to do it that way. Simply place the touch plate against the fence with the front of the fence forward of the bit, the Fence then backs up until the BACK of the Touch-Plate touches the FRONT of the BIT, if there is a fault or some reason the Touch plate does not work, the only thing that will happen is you'll be left holding the touch plate as the fence keeps moving away towards the back of the table where it will automatically stop, or until you press stop. So there is no need to know the thickness of the touch plate and nothing to jam or break.

    Finally the R2R system must calculate the centre of the bit (HOME) by halving the MEASURED bit diameter and subtracting the touch plate thickness. My system has a dedicated optical HOME sensor and sets the front of the Fence to the centre of the COLLET, first time every time. Because of the limitations imposed by an add on fence like the R2R this can't be done. The R2R also has a limited mechanical movement and it looks like it has to be repositioned and recalibrated for some large jobs, again, this is not a deficiency in the R2R Fence design, it's brilliant for what it does and it's designed as an upgrade for most typical Router tables, therefore some trade offs apply.

    In my Table with the Automated Fence built as part of the table there are no menus to change, no speed options to set, no touch plate needed no Bit width to be measured and no safety concerns to set Fence Home, just press the Fence Home button and you're done.

    Anyway, I just added an option to select using the Touch plate to set the outside edge of the bit to the front of the Fence if you so desire, then I decided to carry out the following test.

    1: I pressed "Fence Home" this Auto Sets Fence Home (inbuilt optical sensor sets Fence to center of the router collet) and sets the Controller readout to ZERO.

    2: I fitted a 1/4" centering tool and also measured the diameter with a Digital micrometer, the measurement was 6.339 mm.

    3: I then used the Touch plate to set the face of the Fence exactly level with the edge of the 1/4" Centering tool.

    The Readout on the Controller Displayed 3.18 mm, which is measured from ZERO (the Optical Home position - center of the collet) so it should read half the diameter of the 1/4" centering tool, therefore 3.18 mm X 2 = 6.36 mm.

    6.36 mm - 6.339 mm = 0.021 mm or 0.0008 of an inch difference.

    NOTE: The optical Home sensor was set around 10 months ago using a straight edge above a pinpoint centering tool and looking along the fence to get it as close as I could to the center of the collet. I've had the Fence on and off a few times since then and made many modifications, so I'll realign the sensor when I get a chance and repeat the test. I intentionally used a small diameter centering tool to force the maximum measurement error, I'm very sure I can get it close to zero, but I could live with 0.0008"

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  3. #47
    Join Date
    Nov 2013
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    Caboolture QLD AU
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    Default Measurement update.

    I rechecked the Optical Home sensor position and it appears to be spot on after 9 months. However I found that the shaft of the centering bit is not true, more so at the nominal 1/4" end, so I tested with the 1/2" end, once again I measured the diameter with a Digital micrometer which has a resolution of 0.00005" and a tolerance of 0.00015", the measurement was 12.625 mm.

    After repeating the previous test which calculates the Diameter of the Bit using the Router controller. Achieved by measuring the distance between the HOME "Optical Sensor" (which sets the face of the Fence to the center of the Router collet) and using the Touch Plate which moves the Fence so that the edge of the Bit is flush with the face of the Fence. This reading gives the Radius of the Bit, which is multyplied by two and equals the diamater or width of the bit.

    The result was:

    Bit Diameter using Digital micrometer = 12.625 mm.

    Bit Diameter calculated by the Controller =12.620 mm.

    Difference = 0.005 mm or 0.00019" (inches) - I'm really surprised that it's that close considering the mainly timber construction of the table, Fence and the Fence "end plates" connecting the Fence to the Bearing rails and Screw drives, and lastly the low cost linear bearing rails, screw drives and Digital slide Scales used in this "lets see if it works" build.

    Just trying to get a few short videos made, hopefully I can get something decent enough to upload.

  4. #48
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    Default

    I thought a BIG thankyou was in order for the moderators and management of this bulletin board for maintaining the quality of the Forums and for quick removal of spam posts.

  5. #49
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    Nov 2013
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    Default Short Videos

    Sorry for dark videos, a few very short videos of the table automation.

    Bit Change was selected. Notice the Fence is automatically moved back before the Bit is raised to the AutoLock (single spanner) Bit change position.



    Example of selecting a saved Job file after Bit Change to Auto position the Fence and Bit,
    the Fence automatically waits until the Bit has moved down far enough from the Bit Change position.



    Auto Bit Zero: Note normally you would hold the Touch plate down, however this made it easier to see
    the three Step movement with two sets of Micro Stepping for final Zero, happens a bit to fast to see.


    Fence Home, again three step movement with final fine micro stepping but just too fast to see all of them.
    The Fence is automatically set to the center of the Collet (HOME) via an Optical Sensor built into the table.


    This time using optional Touch plate method, normally the touch plate is not on it's edge but this makes it easier to see.
    Note that the Controller moves back to Optical Home as a reference to calculate how far to move the Fence forward past the bit
    it then backs up to set the Bit edge to the Face of the Fence with fine micro stepping for the final positioning.



    Finally the Fence is placed right at the back of the table and shows the Right angle Sled travelling with the Fence to the Home Position.

  6. #50
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    Mar 2006
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    Default

    And here I was thinking of just using a spindle, I really needed not to see this lol
    I like to move it move it, I like to move it.

  7. #51
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    Default

    lol that's where I was initially heading, just a spindle and simple lift upgrade, somewhere along the way I got bushwhacked by a low cost DRO, then mugged by some cheap linear bearing rails, an encounter with a screw drive was the final straw and I never recovered.

  8. #52
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by MandJ View Post
    lol that's where I was initially heading, just a spindle and simple lift upgrade, somewhere along the way I got bushwhacked by a low cost DRO, then mugged by some cheap linear bearing rails, an encounter with a screw drive was the final straw and I never recovered.
    If I could just get adjustment/zeroing on the lift that would be awesome, I think can't hurt adding a little bit if technology can it )
    Maybe keep it via a basic type setup.

    Do yu think a 1.5kw spindle would do?
    Just going to work up Bom
    I like to move it move it, I like to move it.

  9. #53
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by WillyInBris View Post
    If I could just get adjustment/zeroing on the lift that would be awesome, I think can't hurt adding a little bit if technology can it )
    Maybe keep it via a basic type setup.

    Do yu think a 1.5kw spindle would do?
    Just going to work up Bom

    There are a number of simple way to set bit zero reference that don't need a controller but can still use a Touch plate, it depends on the type of lift you buy or build and the method you use to adjust it as in manual or motor driven. Spindle motors are rated differently to plunge routers and for a given power rating, spindles are generally more powerful, but there is also the choice of collet sizes available for different spindles sizes that will determine the final choice.

    In order to keep this thread on track it would be best to start a new thread asking for ideas for spindle motor choices and making a simple router lift using CNC parts, if that is what you plan to do. I'll be more that happy to put in my 2 cents worth on that thread if needed. Another member, Chris Parks, may document his build using a spindle motor and construction of a router lift using similar low cost mechanical components as used in my build, if he does it should answer most questions.

  10. #54
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Location
    Helensburgh
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    Default

    This is a mock up to show how the slide works with the bearing rails and a lead screw to adjust the height of the spindle. The cost to build the slide in a manual version would be around $120 all up at a guess. I am going to build a manual version with above table height adjustment and I have started the build copying the full electronic version as well.

    IMG_2153.jpgIMG_2152.jpgIMG_2156.jpg

    The last image shows the lead screw adjuster. A coupling is attached to the screw and an extension rod would then exit through the table top so it can be used to adjust the slide. A brake will be needed to lock the adjusting drive and I have a few ideas on that but I haven't settled on the final one yet. Using this style of lift will also make it very easy to use a DRO to measure height which is a plus.
    CHRIS

  11. #55
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    Jan 2014
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    Sydney Upper North Shore
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    Default

    Mines similar to Chris's, but I'm lifting a router attached to a platform.

    IMG_0218.jpg

  12. #56
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    Default

    Just as a note on this style of lift, you only need about 100mm total travel to bring the collet above the table so a very short bearing rail can be used or buy a longer one and cut it in half. As shown the pieces of MDF on mine are way to big and that makes the rail travel appear restricted.
    CHRIS

  13. #57
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    Nov 2013
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    Default Cabinet and Top Size

    I wanted to include some info on the Cabinet size, Top size and component limitations that determine these.




    Total Fence travel with the DRO and Screw-drive used in this build is 277mm or a bit less than 11 inches.

    That limit is primarily the Length of the Screw-Drive AND the length of the DRO scale slide, I cut the Linear rails down allowing for the distance between the Bearing blocks that run on the rail to fit the travel. The blocks need to be separated at least 120mm (between the inside edges of the blocks) so overall distance (outside to outside of the two blocks) is around 200mm, the seperation is to counteract any force the user might apply against the top of the fence when routing tall jobs. The front Block should be forward of the Fence as much as possible and the rear block should be flush with the rear of the fence.


    With this build I used my existing router table / cabinet, so what would I change if I were to remake the cabinet?

    1: The available 277mm Fence travel is all I need for any Routing job I would do on this RT.

    2: I would eliminate the rear cabinet overhang for the Screw-drive, linear-Rail and DRO mounting.

    A: The current cabinet depth is 500mm, same as the Top, and the side drive component mounting-board extends back 100mm.

    B: So ideally cabinet depth should be increased from 500mm to around 610 mm.

    C: The Top would remain at 500mm deep X 600mm wide.

    D: There would be a second removable top covering that extra 110mm depth and it would be 110mm D x 600mm W.

    This still allows the Fence to clear the main 500mm Top so that the Top can be simply lifted off. If access to the components at the rear of the table is needed then the short cover Top of 110mm D x 600mm Wide can also be removed. The back shorter top does not need to be the same thickness or material as the main top, its only purpose is to seal the rear of the cabinet top.


    3: The Router motor is mounted so that:

    A: The Front of the Fence just clears the FRONT edge of the largest diameter BIT you would use in the table.
    In other words, the front of the fence clears the front of the bit.

    B: From that position, the front of the fence can travel 277mm towards the rear of the table.

    C: At which point the Front of the Fence should clear the back edge of the Main top, in my case the top is 500mm deep.

    Once Fence travel depth (from the front of the BIT to the rear of main top) has been determined, the Table-Top area forward of the front edge of the bit can be made as deep as you want. So forward area is changeable and not dictated by available Fence travel, obviously adding or subtracting from this area would change the 610mm total cabinet depth and 500mm Main top size.

  14. #58
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    Confession time, I am going to have to make the sides of mine a lot deeper because I did not think it through enough. The main problem is the length of the drives for the fence, while I could make them fit because they are going to be on a sub mount then bolted to the side of the cabinet it would be less than ideal. I have a way out idea on how to overcome that but it would present other problems that I don't need. What operations does the fence need to substantially clear the bit for, I know of two, box joints and dovetails and I can't think of any others off hand but I would like the thoughts of others who have used a RT far more than me to suggest them and possibly how far the fence needs to be back in their experience.
    CHRIS

  15. #59
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    Default

    I agree, I set mine level with the front edge, not really clearing the bit as such, my thinking was those times when a small amount needs to be removed due to timber thickness and hardness when making large cuts in a few passes, but mostly you're talking around 20 to 25mm from total travel so no big loss either way.

  16. #60
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    A couple of photos of the presets, I'm slowly writing the code as I get a chance, these are just some rough working layouts of menus. The Main page now has an AUTOM button (it was Jobs) and JOBS are located to the bottom of the new Automation presets home screen.

    .



    I realise a lot of these may never be used but while I was at it I just allowed for any future needs.

    On another note, I found an excitingly SIMPLE and elegant way to set Slide Stops on the mitre / right angle JIG rail, normally you see clamps with timber used as work piece Start and End travel limits, none are needed, so nothing to clutter the router table.

    The exciting part of it is - I can incorporate a tiny sensor in each stop to detect when the work piece reaches the stop. You could, depending on the automation task, automatically move the Fence and / or Bit to the next work position. If just making a single pass, it could either Stop the router and drop the (straight) BIT really fast, or just drop the Bit to just below the top of the table, allowing you to move the work piece back to the start etc. At which point the start sensor could restore the BIT position or move the BIT / Fence to the next cut position. This may sound complex but it costs around $12, and is simple to add to the automation controller. Again the Lift can move really FAST and accurately when needed.

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