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  1. #46
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    May 2003
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    Canberra
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    63
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    1,291

    Default Xacta Lift

    Major Woodworking Equipment in Padstow NSW stock the Xacta Lift system, similar to Router Raizer but less $$$

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  3. #47
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    Aug 2003
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    Pambula
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    Default

    On the subject of height adjustment, perhaps someone who has a top-of-table style adjuster could comment but it seems to me that one that adjusts from the side of the table would be more convenient?

    With this style, you would not have a winder handle that had to be re-inserted and then removed again each time you wanted to adjust the height. You'd also have one less thing hanging around to lose and you wouldn't need a dust plug, like the Router Raizer has.

    I also wonder if the router raizer style might tend to pull the bit away from the perpendicular on some routers (mine for example). See this thread: http://www.woodworkforums.ubeaut.com...ghlight=makita

    Just a thought.
    "I don't practice what I preach because I'm not the kind of person I'm preaching to."

  4. #48
    Join Date
    Oct 2003
    Location
    Perth
    Posts
    158

    Default

    And just to throw another factor in . . .

    Elsewhere in this forum the book"Woodworking with the Router: Professional Router Techniques and Jigs any Woodworker Can Use" by Bill Hylton and Fred Matlack was recommended as the best "how to" around.
    My copy arrived from the US recently and two things especially jumped out at me in relation to this thread. The first is that the router table designed by the authors looks uncannily like Norm's New Yankee version and second, I quote "Slots are a nuisance, they gather dirt, they catch your work and cause mistakes, and they usually cause your table to warp." "Forget the mitre gauge in the tabletop. It's unnecessary." They suggest that we use a sled riding against the table edge, "combining the roles of mitre gauge, push block,and chip breaker".

    Lastly (yep - I know that's four) keep the compartment housing the router open to the front rather than enclosing it not only because it limits access but doors will restrict air circulation which is important for cooling.

    Has anyone found that the slot was central to warping? How successful is the sled approach?

    Regards
    Pete J

  5. #49
    Join Date
    Aug 2002
    Location
    Williamstown, Melbourne
    Posts
    486

    Default

    Not that I claim to know any better, but my observations would be:

    - even Norm's table has a mitre slot, and he uses it.
    - almost every plan for a table I have seen has one, so I figure they must be on to something...

    - an enclosed router compartment should only be used with sufficient dust extraction. The air flow from the vacuum is enough to keep the router cool (better, in fact, because it is evacuating the warmer air). An enclosed compartment without dust extraction would be a disaster, not just because of heat, but because of all the dust getting into the motor.

  6. #50
    Join Date
    Jan 2001
    Location
    NSW
    Posts
    196

    Default Mitre Track

    Hi again,

    Still haven't been able to get a digital camera yet to show my table but I'll keep trying.

    John G spoke about the Table in Aust Woodsmith #17 and how you need to cut the extrusion down to size. I didn't recall that was required, so I had another look. If you use the extrusions recomended you don't have to cut it down to size. The extrusions are available from Capral Aluminium and the Tee Track is 22x9mm Part #E4204 and the Right Angle extrusion is 40x12x 3mm. This allows for a 15mm wide track for the mitre gauge. If your mitre gauge bar is wider, just use a wider R/A extrusion.

    Table Its seems some people are getting to hung up on what to build the table top from. I was lucky enough to pick up a piece of "FLAT" 32 mm MDF for $8 from a salvage yard. Laminating a couple of sheets of 16mm MDF (which is cheap and common) will do the job fine. Remember if they don't start out flat they won't finish flat.
    The main thing which will ensure your table top remains flat is a sturdy base/cabinet then seal the surface.

    Some say don't cut slot/track into the table top and use a carriage instead, but I find the slot doesn't cause any problems.
    Each to their own. The carriage would certainly be a lot more work to build.

    Glen

  7. #51
    Join Date
    Jan 2001
    Location
    NSW
    Posts
    196

    Default Vertical Height Adjustment

    Here is an idea.

    I have "The New Router Book" by Patrick Speilman. One of his Unique table designs is to construct a Vertical Plunging Table.
    It has a sturdy timber frame for the base, and the Plunge mechanism is a lever pivoted off the frame and pushing upwards on the router. The other end of the lever is connected via a cable & pulley to a foot operated pedal. I've been thinking of a way to adapt the concept to some kind of threaded adjusted but no joy so far. Anyway keep trying.

    Glen.

  8. #52
    Join Date
    May 2002
    Location
    Queenslander
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    206

    Default

    Not convinced on the need for a mitre slot. Seems like it just weakens the top allowing flexing and cutting errors. Couple of sheets of 6mm MDF clamped to the table makes a good mitre slot for the few occasions you need one. The same sheets also serve as packing between the workpiece and table top when passing work over the cutter. After the first pass, remove a sheet allowing the next cut to be 6mm deeper…saves going under the table to adjust the plunge mechanism. Tried attaching formica to one top using contact cement but couldn’t get a dead flat surface. Without spray equipment it is very hard to lay contact cement on a surface at a consistent thickness. Now I use raw MDF and coat it with sealer. Also my tabletop has a couple of beams attached underneath to keep it flat. I found that a 600 x 900 mm top was plenty big enough. The table doesn’t take up too much room in the shed and doubles as a stand for other tools and jigs when needed.
    Mal

  9. #53
    Join Date
    Apr 2001
    Location
    Perth
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    10,803

    Default

    I think this thread is getting a little wierd and losing perspective.

    I subscribe to the KIS principle - keep it simple. The greater the complexity of the components, the more there is to go wrong.

    Firstly, as long as the table is made from stable material it will not warp. MDF is about the most stable material around. Make sure the pieces you select are flat and they will stay that way. Cover both sides in laminate because you want a smooth surface so wood slides over it more easily.

    Secondly, a router table does not need a mitre slot. Yes you can get away with a sleigh-sort-of-thing. But a mitre gauge in a slot is easier to use as long as you can assure that the mitre slot and fence remain aligned. If your fence system cannot guarentee this, then use a sleigh. I cannot for the life of me imagine that a mitre slot will cause a 35-50mm thick table to warp!, particularly when it is attached near an edge. You would be more likely to get warpage from the router insert. If this still concerns you, then increase the thickness of the MDF.

    This business of cutting aluminium extrusions to create a mitre slot?! Why would you bother? Just buy a ready-made mitre slot from Carba-tec. I'm not pushing this because I have shares in the place (I wish!). It is simply better made than anything you could fabricate at home.

    To keep things in perspective, remember that there are many very functional router tables that are no more than a sheet of MDF with an attached router (no plate) and a length of timber for a fence. The original Triton router table was close to this design. You do not need to build a fancy fence for a table to work well. You build one (as I did) or buy a specialist one because it adds refinements that makes the process of routing easier or more accurate. But I lay odds that the more there is to fiddle with, the less likely you will use it.

    Do you really want a Router Raizer? Actually this could be nice if your table set up was permanent. If you are like me, and use the router freehand as well, then you need something that permits really easy attachment. I think that the Triton design is very effective. And it is available as spare parts. As with many other makes, my Elu router has a fine adjustment knob. I have simply added an extension handle that makes it easier to use. Now note that I am not saying that this is the only way to go. Just that for me it provided a simple solution, one that did not add extra equipment or more complexity.

    I have a Love-Hate relationship with my router table. It touches on what I consider woodworking to be about (for me, I emphasise that this is not going to be the view for others). The router table is the type of tool that can poison the ideal of woodworking, turning it into wood machining. As many of you know, I love using handplanes, chisels and other hand tools. I get a connectedness to the wood this way. I feel more creative when I shape it myself than when the shape is machined by a tool.

    A short story as an illustration. I was reading on another Forum a post by one woodworker who was asking for help with a routing task. He wanted to cut a 5 degree bevel along an edge but could not find a router bit to do this. He had hunted through available shops for weeks. The Forum members offered suggestions that included building a machine that tilted the router at an angle so a straight bit might be used instead, to grinding a 5 degree router bit for this special purpose. No one suggested using a Block Plane, which would have been a 5 minute job. It was as though if it could not be done with a machine then it could not be done. What price creativity?

    Be careful that the search for the Perfect Router Table does not blind you to the fact that it is just a tool, one that you should control, and not the other way around. Keep it eligantly simple and maintain a perspective.

    With regards from Perth

    Derek
    Last edited by derekcohen; 16th November 2003 at 03:43 AM.

  10. #54
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    Default

    Derek,

    Everything you say is true - from your perspective. For you, the ideal router table is one that is simple, functional and unobtrusive. You prefer not to use it unless you have to.

    For others, their router table is the centre of their universe. The router has developed a cult status because it is such a versatile tool. I'm not at all suprised that people expended so much energy trying to come up with a way of cutting a 5 degree bevel with a router. For these guys, it is the challenge of trying to think up a way of doing it. For them, that is the important part. It would never occur to them to say "hey, why don't you use a block plane?" because the challenge was "hey, how do I do this with a router?".

    A challenge to create the ideal router table (the name of this thread, don't forget) is naturally going to attract a vast range of extravagent ideas. Some people are going to get more of a kick out of designing it than they might out of using it. If we can pick up a few ideas for improving our own along the way, that's great. If the final design is so fantastic we all want to build one, that's even better.

    My own feeling is there is no such thing as an ideal table because it really depends upon the requirements and the personality of the woodworker. What's ideal for you may not be ideal for me. For me, it is most likely to end up being a sheet of something flat with bit of hardwood clamped to it but that's because I'm lazy and I just want to get the job done and move on to something else. However if you want to build one, it's beneficial to read the observations of those who have been through the process.
    "I don't practice what I preach because I'm not the kind of person I'm preaching to."

  11. #55
    Join Date
    Jun 2001
    Location
    Duffy ACT
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    133

    Default

    Maybe this thread should be renamed to "An Ideal Router Table" or "My Ideal Router Table", else we may be in danger of producing a camel - or maybe a platypus. A thing of beauty to a few, an oddity to many others!

    There are many ways of doing most jobs - I haven't yet heard of anybody with a left-handed router table, but I'm sure that some users would swear this is the only way to go...

    Johnno
    Growing old disgracefully...

  12. #56
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    Jan 2001
    Location
    NSW
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    Default

    Hi Derek,

    I envy your skill and ability to do justice, to some of the finest hand tools which are available today. As a woodworker, well, gee I'm lucky I have a day job.

    I totally agree with what you said. We often create the most complex solutions for a problem.

    A router table can be as simple or as complex as we make it. Whatever the design, as long as it served the function you require it has to be good.
    I use my router for many purposes and the accuracy/functionality of my table and jigs helps make up for a lack of ability.

    Perhaps that the complex solution. Oh well.

    Glen

  13. #57
    Join Date
    Jun 2003
    Location
    adelaide
    Posts
    111

    Default

    dont bother with a mitre slot in your router tables. an off cut of mdf against the fence works beuatifuly as long as its edges are 90 degrees and even prevents torn grain if your doing tenons etc. sometimes i think you guys spend more time tuning your tools that working on projects but whatever floats your boat.

  14. #58
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    Apr 2001
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    Perth
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    Default

    Hi guys

    I apologise if my post was out of line and sounded as if I was prescribing my design as the only one. This is NOT what I had in mind. Admittedly, I wrote this late at night and was perhaps less clear than I would like to have been. On the other hand, if I have made you examine your needs in a router table or, even more importantly, as a woodworker, then I will be more satisfied.

    I was still reacting to the absurdity of the thread I had read on this other Forum (about the 5 degree bevel). Silent C wrote: "I'm not at all suprised that people expended so much energy trying to come up with a way of cutting a 5 degree bevel with a router. For these guys, it is the challenge of trying to think up a way of doing it. For them, that is the important part. It would never occur to them to say "hey, why don't you use a block plane?" because the challenge was "hey, how do I do this with a router?". " Well, this was NOT the focus of the thread. If it had been a challenge, I would agree with you wholeheartedly. In fact, that could be fun, that is, trying to find another solution to a problem. BUT these guys just stopped thinking. They could not conceptualise a way to do it other than with a router. They had become stuck inside their envelope. Frankly, I'm sure that the individual's wood project was probably abandoned at this point since it could not be done, or that he changed the design to something he could do instead. My dissapointment was that he did not use the opportunity to develop his skills, to grow. He let a tool limit him. This was really the message I had at the back of my mind.

    The very last thing I would want to do is stem the stream of creative ideas here about designing and building a router table. My apology is for sounding negative or if I implied a prescription for a design.

    I look forward to hearing about the routering needs of others and your efforts at designing to meet these.

    Regards from Perth

    Derek

  15. #59
    Join Date
    Sep 2003
    Location
    Elimbah, QLD
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    Default

    It seems to me that you only need a device like a Router Raizer if you have a router that does not incorporate an effective post adjuster knob. I find that my Makita 3612C is easy to use in my router table because it does have such a knob, whereas the fiddly depth adjustment mechanism and lack of a post adjustment knob on my Porter-Cable PC 7529 would make some auxiliary device like the Router Raizer necessary. That is why I keep the Porter Cable for hand-held use. Another advantage of the Makita for router-table use is the metal dust-deflecting plate that it has to prevent dust from dropping into the motor when it is used upside-down.

    I tend to agree that a mitre slot is redundant in a router table. If you have one, you must also have the type of fence that remains parallel to the slot, which is hard to arrange unless you have a fancy fence like the Incra. I find a rectangular scrap of MDF does the job without any hassle.

  16. #60
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    Oct 2003
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    Kempsey NSW
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    Default Hi Derek

    That's ok Derek. Everyone is allowed to sound unintentionally sanctimonious from time to time.
    I've enjoyed reading this thread as I feel that routing is not one of my strong points (read bloody hopeless) but your comments do make a lot of sense. It's just that you've rained on our parade, simply by being right. But when a perfect design is found I'll be the first to try to build one.
    cheers
    Jim
    Cheers
    Jim

    "I see dumb peope!"

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