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    Default Help Choosing A Router Lift For The New Router Table

    I've been using a Carbatec Cast Iron Router Table, paired with a Triton TRA-001 for about two years now. Over the time that I've owned this router table, and as I've learnt more about Router Tables, a few shortcomings have appeared with the Carbatec Cast Iron Table (http://www.carbatec.com.au/carba-tec...r-table_c20250). So, I've decided that it's time to invest in a much better system. The main problems with the Carbatec Cast Iron table are:


    1. The table seems to have "warped" over time, as it now slopes down from all four edges toward the centre hole. The sag seems to be between 20 and 30 thou depending where you measure around the edge of the router hole. I found the problem last month after cutting some joinery and finding that the joint alignment was out in places. The table was fairly flat (within less than 0.005") when I bought it, so I guess it is this so called "cast iron creep" that I've heard some people mention.
    2. The table is fairly thick (about 25mm) where the router mounts. This has meant that I need to use some longer shank router bits to get them high enough above the table. With many standard bits (e.g. a CMT 1/2" roundover bit) if the bit is seated in the collet, and then raised 3mm before tightening the collet, then when the bit is set at the correct working height, the Triton's safety mechanism that prevents the router from being turned on when the collet is raised to the above table bit change position, is activated - meaning you can't run the router. One unsafe fix is to insert less of the bit's shank in the collet so that the bit sits higher, allowing the safety mechanism to disengage. The safer option is to buy bits with longer shanks which limits the choice of bits.
    3. The standard fence and dust collection on the Carbatec Table is pretty poor. I've made my own fence for it, which has been an improvement.


    The Triton has been a vary good router, and has handled some very large bits with no issues. My only wish is that the Triton's above table height adjustment was finer in operation. As designed, the Triton height adjustment is a bit course, making precise bit height adjustment a bit hit and miss.


    Now - a slight diversion from the subject at hand, to provide some background ....... Yesterday I had a "brown undies" moment when I was using the router table to put a round-over on some parts for a chest of drawers I'm building. Unfortunately I happened to be using the router table when the transformer on the power pole just down the road from us decided to fry itself. One minute I was minding my own business routing away, and the next the router momentarily increased speed wayyyy above it's normal top speed, and then died in a cloud of smoke and sparks. I also lost the Dust Extractor motor, the Refrigerator, the microwave, and the washing machine - all happened to be running at the time we got the power surge. Fortunately Surge Protectors seem to have protected the computers, TV gear, etc. We spoke to the Electricity Company guys late yesterday, and their rep turned up today to have a look at the damage, and to help us lodge a damages claim against the Elec Company. They've been pretty good so far - they're getting someone to deliver us a new refrigerator on Saturday morning, and we should get vouchers to allow us to buy replacements for the rest of the dead items by the middle of next week. But - enough of my electricity problems.

    So, with the big Triton needing to be replaced, I figured that now was the time to think about getting a router lift and a new router that will fit the router lift. So far, I've only found two Router Lifts in the Australian shops. They are:







    The Woodpecker PRL V2 is supplied with a 240 volt, 1800 watt (2.4 HP) Fixed Base Router Motor which is included in the total price ($ 1,247.50 inc GST).


    The Jessem Mast-R-Lift is $ 1,090 inc GST, and Gregory Machinery have the Swiss-Tec 240 volt, 1800 Watt Fixed Base Router Motor at $ 449 inc GST. So the Jessem would be $ 1,539 inc GST for the lift and router motor combo.

    Whatever I end up buying will fit into a new Router Table that I'll start building next week. The new Router Table will be roughly based on the New Yankee Workshop design that seems to have been fairly widely copied. I haven't make a decision regarding a fence yet - I'll probably use my old fence until the bank balance recovers, then think about an Incra Fence.

    So, some questions for the forum ...


    1. Are there any other Router Lifts that are sold in Australia, and that offer above table bit change, that I should be considering ?
    2. Can anyone who has had experience with the above Router Lifts (or other model lifts made by these manufacturers) provide any sort of review of these items ?


    Looking forward to receiving everyone's input.

    Regards,

    Roy
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  3. #2
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    Apologies Roy, I'm no help but want to see what others say to your question, thank you...cheers, crowie

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    G'day Roy

    For my money the Jessem looks like the lizards gizards. Their fence, Clear Cut Stock Guides, and the Mitre Slide all look excellent quality. Now I know that Gregory Machinery don't have all their stuff (see here and here), but I can help you with that if you need.

    Don't bother looking to see if there is another 220-240v Router Motor only available - that is the only one in the world - I have done very thorough research, including significant dialogue with Jessem. Unless something has been released in the last 12 months (like that one has been).

    Don't be fooled by the Swiss-Tec name - they are made NNE of Australia.
    Regards, FenceFurniture

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    Question One More Router Lift To Add To My List Of Contenders ....... Bench Standard

    Greetings,

    After making the first post in this thread, I did some more Googling and found the following Australian made Router Lift from Bench Standard:

    http://www.benchstandard.com/product...ing-plate.aspx

    1046-RLIFT1_1_1.JPGThe Bench Standard Router Lift is a bit different to the other two Router Lifts that I'm considering, in that this one is compatible with a few different Plunge Routers that are commonly available in Australia. It also has it's height adjustment scales calibrated in metric, although as I'm comfortable working in both metric and imperial measurements, the metric calibration - for me - is a nice to have, but not essential.

    The price is $499.00 inc GST for the Router Lift, plus whatever you're going to pay for a suitably powerful Plunge Router (e.g. $314 inc GST and Freight from Timberbits for a Triton TRA-001 to replace my dead one). So, based on using the big Triton Router, the total cost for the Router Lift and a suitable router would be $ 813.00 inc GST, plus the Freight for the Router Lift.

    So - does anyone own one of these little beasties ? Can anyone share their experiences with this Router Lift ?

    Thanks,

    Roy
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    Roy, you'll do well to update your research on the Triton router's reliability. I seem to recall people on here saying they are not the machine the once were a couple of years ago.
    Regards, FenceFurniture

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    if you are planning on getting another TRA001 from triton, and building your own router table. you could do everything on the cheap just by using a router plate and the TRA001 ability to be raised from above the table allowing one handed above table bit changes.

    I use a custom built router table with a woodpeckers router plate which was designed for the tritons.
    http://www.woodcraft.com/Product/154...n-Routers.aspx

    20150523_134005[1].jpg

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    Those router lifts seem to be beautifully engineered. That Bench Standard one in particular, with its suspension evenly spaced around the 4 corners would probably go a long way to eliminating sag. But I suspect any of these solutions will rob your router of a substantial amount of plunge depth too.

    Another alternative that might work is to use a standard plate (that Woodpeckers one looks good) with an above the table adjustment mechanism like this one:
    http://www.routertechnologies.com/index-old1.htm

    This will require some modification to your router, but everything up to but excluding a 1/2" drill bit is included in the kits.

    They also sell their Xtreme Xtension Bit extender too, which provides your required above-the-table bit exchange. An extended 5/32" ball-ended T-bar allen wrench will make bit changes even swifter & easier. This way you still get generous depth of cut whilst maintaining safe bit (& extension) depth in the collets. You won't even need to lock the spindle to change bits either.

    Maybe the extension alone might work as required with one of those suggested router lifts too. There's other bit extensions available on the market, but the solidity, mass & flywheel effect of this particular version should work very well with larger, heavier bits in spindle mode.

    Another router that offers over-the-table depth adjustment as standard is Trend's T11. This isn't as exotic as it sounds: its merely a "badge engineered" modified DeWalt DW625 router, from the same factory as the DeWalt, but with a similar mechanism to the Router Raizer already inbuilt. This would work with any appropriate router plate too: the only modification required being to drill a clearance hole for the Trend's crank handle.

    The DeWalt 625/Trend T11/Elu Mof 177E derivatives have been industry standard machines for the past 35 years or so. As such the machines, parts, accessories & more importantly service are available in almost every country around the world (including Australia) making it probably the most popular & successful router design in history. With so many examples in use around the world there's literally hundreds of 3rd party accessories made and marketed specifically for this particular family.

    I'm not suggesting that any of the router lift mechanisms or your preferred choice of router are in any way unsuitable: I'm merely recommending a much cheaper alternative that could very well be just as effective.

    http://www.toolstop.co.uk/trend-rout...er-240v-p14761

    http://www.axminster.co.uk/trend-t11...router-in-case
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ratbag View Post
    But I suspect any of these solutions will rob your router of a substantial amount of plunge depth too.
    Not too bad - usually about 6mm. On the ones designed for motor only (something sadly lacking in the 240v market until the SwissTec came out) it matters not at all.
    Regards, FenceFurniture

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    What I really dig about the Jessem Mastr II is the side wheel for height adjustment. None of this fooling around sticking things through the top where there might be dust in it (and it's very hit and miss on the Triton). Also, because of the size of the wheel much finer adjustments can be made, but conversely doing a coarse adjustment would be overall faster I think - again the Triton coarse adjustment is not only very coarse because of the gearing, it also takes several grab-release-regrab to effect it because of the knob size and position under the table.
    Regards, FenceFurniture

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  11. #10
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    I really don't understand why Gregory Mach don't bring in the Jessem Fence: it looks like another excellent piece of kit.
    http://www.jessemdirect.com/product_p/04010.htm

    And the Mitre-Slide looks like another great piece of kit:
    http://www.jessemdirect.com/product_p/06001.htm

    I know fletty would have appreciated having one when he had his incident last year.
    Regards, FenceFurniture

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    Default More Info About The - Jessem Mast-R-Lift Excell II - and Progress With The Selection

    jess-excel-1.jpg I did some more reading on the Jessem factory web site and realised that the Jessem Mast-R-Lift Excel II is actually a full sized Router Table Top with the Router Lift fitted, and not a router insert . I didn't realise that. On first read, I had thought it was the usual router insert. Not correct.

    After some careful reading on the Jessem web site (http://www.jessem.com/MAST-R-LIFT_EXCEL_II.html), it turns out to be a 24" x 32" (609.6 mm x 812.8 mm) laminated phenolic router table top with the router lift ---- not a router insert.

    I guess I should have realised that it was a router table top and not a router insert when I saw the T-Track/Mitre Slot in the photo. Duh...

    I had intended that my new Router Table would eventually be fitted with an Incra Positioner Fence when funds allowed. Not sure how that would work on this Jessem Router Table. I guess I'd have to make some sort of extension table behind the main router table to accommodate the back half of the Incra Positioner Fence. Something else to be considered.

    1046-RLIFT1_1_1.JPG

    The Bench Standard Router Lift is, for now at least, my first preference. Unfortunately I've been unable to find someone who uses one who can advise what it's actually like to use. I guess my main concern is how well those bearings are sealed to prevent wood dust getting in and jamming up the works. The other contenders all provide plenty of information about using "triple sealed bearings" etc, giving me confidence that they've at least considered this issue when developing the design.

    I'm also interested in the discussion that has occurred above in posts from Ratbag and FenceFurniture discussing the amount of plunge depth that is lost with this type of Router Lift. So, I've sent an email off to Bench Standard with a few questions, and we'll see what info comes back.

    So - that's the current state of play in this evaluation of the Router Lifts.



    Onto the Router ....
    If I were to go for the Bench Standard Router Lift, I'd also need to buy a new Plunge Router in the 1800 to 2400 watt range (2.4 HP to 3.2 HP range). I have used Triton routers for a few years now, owning both a TRA-001 and am MOF-001. I'm well aware of the issues that some people have had with reliability on the more recent Triton Routers, and even though both of mine have been quite reliable, I may simply have been lucky. Well, as noted in the post that started this thread, my TRA-001 is now toast after being exposed to a nasty power surge resulting from a failed electricity supply transformer just down the road from my place. Can't blame that failure on Triton reliability issues can we.

    So a new, large size, plunge router is also on the "to buy" list if I go ahead with the Bench Standard Router Lift. To quote from the Bench Standard web site; the Bench Standard "router mounting plate is able to take the most common routers found in the Aussie market including - Bosch, DeWalt, Festo, Hitachi, Makita, Ryobi and Triton."

    First of all, lets eliminate a few Router brands from the above list;


    • I'd love a Festool Router, but at $1,590 inc GST (that's Carbatec's price - other dealers may have it a bit cheaper) for the Festool 2,200 watt Router, I'm afraid that is way out of my price range.
    • I'll also exclude the Triton TRA-001 from the list - as a precautionary measure - even though my own experiences have so far, touch wood, been OK.


    The biggest "blue" (Pro range) Bosch Router seems to only be only 1600 watts (GOF 1600 CE Professional), so it's not suitable for turning big raised panel bits in a router table. Mymate has one and it is a pearler of a Router for hand-held work. In the "green" (DIY range) Bosch Router range, their biggest router seems to be only 1200 watt (POF 1200 AE) which is way too small, and anyway my bad experiences with other Bosch DIY range power tools says "No, No, No, Definitely No !" to borrow our PM's latest favourite phrase.

    As for DeWalt, Hitachi, Makita, and Ryobi - I have no recent experience with those brands. I do own a very old (circa 1985 era) Makita Circ Saw that I inherited about twenty years ago and it is still going like a trooper. But with brands being bought out by other companies, and then the products being manufactured to different designs and reliability standards, the reliability reputation that a company had 20 or 30 years ago (or even four years ago in Triton's case) is potentially no indication of that brand's product quality today.

    So, can anyone with recent experience of DeWalt, Hitachi, Makita, and Ryobi brand routers, in the 1800 to 2400 watt range, chip in with their advice and suggested model numbers.

    Many thanks,

    Roy
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    A new router.... this could get out of hand.

    In regard to routers I'm a fully signed-up, card carrying DeWalt fanboy. I'm less than impressed with the rest of their tool range, but in Routers Elu/DeWalt reign supreme in my eyes, and have done since they invented the plunge router back in the 50's. As for the others you've mentioned, Makita tends to standout due to it's large bearings, generous windings & generally simple & robust nature.

    I personally prefer DeWalt's biggest DW626. I've (only just) bought my third one. A snip at $250 I thought. I didn't need it, but I hate to pass up a bargain. Why? For reasons that (hopefully) will become clear in this post regarding alternatives to a big Makita:

    https://www.woodworkforums.com/f20/powerful-makita-rp2301fc-194167

    I still reckon that Trend is well designed though....and made by DeWalt too!
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    Quote Originally Posted by RoyG View Post
    After some careful reading on the Jessem web site (http://www.jessem.com/MAST-R-LIFT_EXCEL_II.html), it turns out to be a 24" x 32" (609.6 mm x 812.8 mm) laminated phenolic router table top with the router lift ---- not a router insert.
    Oopsie! Still by far the best option I reckon. I've gotta say that for an extra $500? the jessem with swiss tec will eat the Bench thingo system


    Quote Originally Posted by RoyG View Post
    I had intended that my new Router Table would eventually be fitted with an Incra Positioner Fence when funds allowed. Not sure how that would work on this Jessem Router Table. I guess I'd have to make some sort of extension table behind the main router table to accommodate the back half of the Incra Positioner Fence. Something else to be considered.
    You and I are going down perzackly the same research path. It's either two tables (ergo two routers....), or a foldaway/clip-on extension.


    Quote Originally Posted by RoyG View Post
    I'd love a Festool Router, but at $1,590 inc GST (that's Carbatec's price - other dealers may have it a bit cheaper) for the Festool 2,200 watt Router
    Nope, same immovable price at every Aussie dealer since April Fool's day (dunno if that was deliberate or not). "Minimum Retail Price" aka price fixing for Festool has been in force since then with the blessing of the ACCC.


    Quote Originally Posted by RoyG View Post
    The biggest "blue" (Pro range) Bosch Router seems to only be only 1600 watts (GOF 1600 CE Professional), so it's not suitable for turning big raised panel bits in a router table.
    Best have a look through this thread then.


    Quote Originally Posted by RoyG View Post
    So, can anyone with recent experience of DeWalt, Hitachi, Makita, and Ryobi brand routers, in the 1800 to 2400 watt range, chip in with their advice and suggested model numbers.
    The big new Makita has been well received - can't remember the model but i think there's a "2100" in it somewhere. A forum search should show it up.
    Regards, FenceFurniture

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    Do we know where the Bench Standard is made?
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    Quote Originally Posted by FenceFurniture View Post
    Do we know where the Bench Standard is made?
    I'm waiting on an email response from Bench Standard regarding just that question, and a few other questions. I'm hoping that they'll respond promptly on Monday (25 May '15).

    That said - Bench Standard is an Australian company. If I has designed something like that Router Lift in Australia, and had bothered to Patent it, the last thing that I'd do would be to send my designs to China or Tiawan to have them make the thing for me. No doubt if I did that, I reckon that the Chinese would be selling their own cheap copy of the design in no time at all.

    Just have to wait and see what Bench Standard has to say in their email.

    Roy
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