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  1. #91
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    Reading through these dust threads and the electronics for these lifters... We sure have some clever people here.

    Once developed, it would be wonderful if these dust, router table and lifter plans could be published or sold in a manner that would be usable by simpletons like me!

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  3. #92
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    Nov 2013
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    Caboolture QLD AU
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    The biggest problem with keypad entry of an absolute accurate AND repeatable position is in the cost of a position sensor with positional data provided separate from any inbuilt display, The low cost units that I'm currently using don't. There are some published hacks for the earlier units, but in reality you have to open them up modify them and work out the data streams yourself. I've done this before but I'm not going to waste my time at this stage for a number of reasons.

    If someone knows of a low cost positions sensor that simply supplies position data with a published protocol then I'll knock up something for anyone wanting to have this feature. Right now I just don't have the time to see if anything low cost has become available, I had a quick look a year ago and they were still pretty expensive.

    Once you have access to the exact position data for the fence or spindle position, the final accuracy is usually determined by the mechanics and construction of the table, even backlash can be simply commentated for in software with automatic positional control adjustment provided the backlash does not cause the position to vary under load, of course this also implies that positional sensors are setup and attached correctly to accurately track the fence or spindle position with respect to the reference surface.

    After using these dual DRO's in my R-Table I would never go back to not having them, they make fence and height setup a breeze, especially with work that would normally be a time consuming difficult job, and importantly when a number of blind adjustments to depth and routing position are being preformed as these DRO's remove the need to lift the work piece and remeasure everything, repeating that process with a number of items would be a real pain without the DRO's.

  4. #93
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    Nov 2013
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    Caboolture QLD AU
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    Quote Originally Posted by woodPixel View Post
    Reading through these dust threads and the electronics for these lifters... We sure have some clever people here.

    Once developed, it would be wonderful if these dust, router table and lifter plans could be published or sold in a manner that would be usable by simpletons like me!
    Depending on which way this ends up going, you may have a number of options, I will certainly provide the source of low cost components used and a complete layout, if I end up making a small controller I'll make that available preprogrammed if needed. Like I said, there may be something low cost and off the shelf, if so we will provide all the details of the build for those who may be interested.

  5. #94
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    Jan 2014
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    Sydney Upper North Shore
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    As you said, many DROs have an internal connection for data output. Some have a port and others you have to open up to access the circuit board.
    This is one i’ve been paying with on a set of vernier calipers. It’s easily accessed.

    11B69C04-4856-40A7-8132-E1AD612EF572.jpeg

    This is one on another unit which you have to dismantle to get to the pins.

    4F278385-C325-4F25-8CC6-0C2C3E64381E.jpeg

    The EGRs I’ve been playing with have feedback potentiometers; some rotary and some linear. I use the feedback from these to position the EGR valves and they are accurate - normally divided into 1024 steps or positions. However, they are only good for approx. 20mm movement but that equates to 0.02mm

  6. #95
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    That would be one way to go, those things are pretty low cost, however I do like the quality of the larger igaging units and their read update speeds. I had another quick look on-line and found a few expensive multi axis decoders are now available for them, they must be getting popular, I also found a little bit of info on the data packet encoding for some of them so I may revisit this in the near future. I'll finish the current mechanical modifications ideas first and make sure they work as planned.

    But would certainly be fun to do, I also thought of a simple way to electronically sense the fence for chuck centre zero as per Chris's idea, Imagine a touch screen option called home, it would tickle Chris's fancy I would think to press HOME and watch the fence automatically move to chuck zero.

    Just for fun, it would also be very easy to have a few dozen re-nameable touch screen pre-sets, if you wanted to go back at any time and use the same bit and job, it could automatically set fence position and bit depth to the exact position for that job. Did I hear someone scream - for crying out loud it's only a router table

  7. #96
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    Jan 2014
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    I currently use the CNC technique of setting home or “router bit tip zero” as I call it ie. a touch pad.
    Might play around with a proximity sensor a s see what accuracy I can get with that.
    Loving this thread

  8. #97
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lappa View Post
    I’m like you - I love a challenge, which is why I started down this route. Originally my project was to develop accurate drivers for stepper motors used in Automotive, which I have done, so I decided to apply it to wood working.
    In my video you can see that I can key in a dimension and the router will move to that point. It is repeatable.
    Link to video Lappa?

    I am largely staying out of the electronic stuff as I have no idea about it all. I have ordered the spindle kit and won't be doing anything until I get that, hopefully next week. I also gained another project yesterday which might delay things a bit, Mrs P. decided a new TV was in order and seeing we are close to getting the NBN we are going to completely revamp and up date the audio/video/computer/phone network in the house and workshop as it is all about 17 years old and totally outdated. And I had nothing else to do of course......
    CHRIS

  9. #98
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    Chris. It is in this thread. There are two videos of dubious quality
    Digital router lift - proof of concept

  10. #99
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    Nov 2013
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lappa View Post
    I currently use the CNC technique of setting home or “router bit tip zero” as I call it ie. a touch pad.
    Might play around with a proximity sensor a s see what accuracy I can get with that.
    I have a feeling that a proximity sensor would be problematic due to the varying mass and size of each bit, along with the limitations in accuracy, but still worth a try if you have one. I wasn't happy with a few of the limitations with the typical DIY CNC touch plate, if your chuck is definitely the same electrical connection as the spindle housing then it would be the simplest.

    If not, I was thinking a tiny strain gauge sensor might be worth testing, we are only interested in an instantaneous change in contact pressure so accuracy and temperature variations errors are unimportant, it isn't affected by the bit, chuck or spindle electrical connection and therefore would requite no other connection back to anything in the spindle ground system. Obviously the plug in lead would connect to a microprocessor port for auto detect.

    To me, bit zero (in some cases) is the cutting surface of the bit that first contacts the work piece. As we all know, there are many bits and cutting situations in timber routing where the cutting surface used is not the highest point of the bit. For those tasks, a simple, single lead, plug in plate, would allow quick accurate start height (zero) settings for the part of the bit cutting surface required for the type of routing job being preformed. Going by feel with a straight edge and rocking the motor height is pretty easy I know, but since we may have the facility for accurate automated height control, why not make life easier and possibility more accurate by coming up with something simple that automatically does it for a lot of the R-table work that we do. Thoughts ?

    BTW Lappa, that's some nice work and testing for your router lift proof of concept videos.

  11. #100
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    I would ignore the bit for the purpose of vertical zero and use the chuck or better still the spindle body or rail position, the bit height would be established by using a known thickness spacer when installing the bit to set the space between the underside of the bit and the top of the chuck/collet and would be removed after the chuck is tightened. Doing that always places the bit at the same vertical position each time it is installed thus assuring that any operation carried out in the future could be repeated as long as the finished position for the bit when last used was known.
    CHRIS

  12. #101
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    I guess it depends on what works for you and the work you are doing, using a sense plate leaves it up to the user. I prefer to know exactly where my start cutting surface is and dial in any offsets or corrections needed.

    EDIT: Although I can see where you are coming from with that method.

  13. #102
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    Chris, can I just add one more thought, I edited my last post to indicate that I could really understand why your idea is a good one, however here is something you might want to ponder.

    If we go with automatic processor controlled setting of height or a change in height, that also would include a nice rotary encoder for manual changes when needed, then everything will be entered (in my build) via a 5" or 7" colour touch screen. They only cost $32 BTW.

    Now if we use the installed cutter top as Zero (the highest point whatever it may be), then once you have adjusted the desired cutting height and fence position for the first time for a given job, the current vertical offset from zero and fence position can be saved and the job given a name, the offset and fence position are displayed when the job is selected and there is a ton of space to completely describe the job with any information pertaining to it, like type of cutter, timber, dimensions etc.

    I can tell you that on a 7" touch screen this is a breeze, I code these with BIG buttons and a LARGE virtual keyboard for those with big clumsy hands and ageing eyesight

    Everything is auto saved to a compact flash, it can be backed up to a PC or other backup device, number of jobs and description space is virtually unlimited for this use.

    What that should mean is that you don't need a spacer to set the bit depth in the chuck, just install it and set zero as above. As soon as the job is selected, the fence and bit will be automatically set to the correct position.

    This might sound complicated but you will have to take my word for it, after many years of doing this sort of thing I know how to make this kind of interface really simple, intuitive and easy to use, ZERO computer skills needed.

    Thoughts again?

    EDIT: Although you don't need auto adjust to do this, it can be done manually using the rotary encoders and looking at the DRO's to manually set the job offsets from zero (previously saved job values are displayed on screen).

  14. #103
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    Mike, I sort of can understand where you are going, my problem is the random height the bit can be installed at if you want to go back and repeat the cut again some time later after it has been removed thus my suggestion of using a physical spacer to set the bit height in the collet. If the bit is set to a known height then electronics can then take over??

    I received the spindle kit this morning but I have been too busy machining timber for Pat to look at it.
    CHRIS

  15. #104
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    Hi Chris, it's a given that the router bit will be at a random height after being reinstalled (unless a spacer is used.) The point is that if ZERO is the highest point of the reinstalled bit and it's referenced to the table top, then the START bit position is always exactly the same, no matter how deep the bit is installed into the spindle or router chuck.

    When you made the first job, you installed the bit and then zeroed the bit by adjusting the spindle height, then you adjusted the spindle (and therefore the bit) to the desired bit working height, once everything was set you saved the working position offset values into the job file. A year later, after reinstalling the bit and zeroing it as above, and then setting the spindle (bit) offset to the values in the saved job file, you now have the reinstalled WORKING bit position exactly as it was the very first time you set it up / routed the job. So yes, the electronics can do it automatically or you could do it manually the old way, but you should at least be using Digital readouts (DRO).

    Edit : made it read slightly clearer - I think

  16. #105
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    Thanks Mike, somes thicker than others
    CHRIS

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