Thread: Advised against DC in favor of vac by sales person

Try carbatec lol. I think they have hafco

BobL is great on the DC advice

Dave TTC
Turning Wood Into Art

A vac along with a dust deputy would work well for the saw. To use a dust extractor you really need machines with 4" ports.

the latest Australian Wood Review has an article by Charles Mak.
For a small space, Mak recommends a vac teamed with a cyclone separator connected directly to the tool.

as Dave TC says, Bob L is a great source of advice on Aust sourced DCs.


as to cleaning the floor ...

it all depends on how much crap ends up on the floor.
If there's going to be lots of shavings, and you don't want to use a broom, then a DC and floor sweep will be useful.
if it's mostly just saw dust, then a vac should be sufficient -- although a 2" hose is what you need.

I used to use a 4" dust extractor on my Triton WC2000 with dust bag. I removed the actual dust collection bag from the bottom of the shroud and made an MDF funnel to sit in the ring and tapered down to a 4" dustport. It worked well. I have seen other setups on the Triton WC2000 where people have enclosed the saw in an MDF box and ran a 4" DE pipe to it. Both work well for what they are, and far better performance than you would get out of a vac.

I am sure it would be possible to build a 4" or larger port into your router table. Once again far better than using a VAC, but not as good as using a bigger DC and 6" pipe

For me, the golden rule of dust collection is get the best you can afford and have the space for and the power available to run it.

A vac is better than nothing, 4" system is better than a vac, 6" is better still if you have the available power to run the DC capable of drawing through 6" pipe and still power the machine you are using.

Regardless of how good your dust extraction is, keep your shed well ventilated and consider doing the worst dust-creation jobs outside of the shed so the prevailing winds can deal with the fine dust.

Cheers

Doug

Now while I'm sure I can't hook up a 4" hose to a 1" hole on the saw and get good performance I'm guessing a 1200 cfm DC and some heavy modification/additions to my setups is going to get me better than a vac??? Yes??

Correct - and the mods should not be too heavy. It takes very little effort to partially enclose a Triton saw and fit a

Few sales people would have a clue about dust and I'm glad you walked out of the store.

The main question you need to ask is what is it I am trying to achieve?

If it is to collect wood shavings and chips then even a small DC will do that job.
Vacuum cleaners are best suited to hand power tools when they are made specifically to fit those tools and eventually even very expensive ones can end up making more fine dust than they collect.
If you want any measure of fine dust control then a larger DC located outside the shed is essential.

but from memory the DC system was magic at cleaning up afterward.

The idea of an effective DC is to capture as much of the fine dust as possible while it's being made - trying to collect it afterwards is usually a lost cause.

I notice you referred to 1200CFM, which is the usual value quote for a generic 2HP DC.
This is overstated by about 50%, to get a real 1000 CFM (the volume rate required to control fine dust) you will need at least a 3HP DC and use 6" ducting.
4" ducting can only draw about 400 CFM irrespective of what DC is used.

Boiling all this down to a few bullet points
- as large a DC as your wallet and circuits can afford
- locate or enclose and vent outside the shed
- 1 x 6" (or 3 x 4") ducting and ports
- modify machines to take advantage of 6" ducting
- run the DC while dust making for some time after last dust generation to clear the shed of dust
- vacuum cleaner for power tools and also locate or enclose and vent the VC outside the shed

Thanks heaps guys

I have already relocated my 1200W ozito vac into the shed and I'll see how that works out for the vac side of things. It has a small bag and it's noisy but it's free

But it looks like I'll be proceeding with the DC path as well.
I was hoping to keep it to 2HP. I think I'd have to find something second hand to afford 3HP.

And yes I will be building an small annex to the shed to house it And just make it big enough for a 3HP in the future.
I've always wanted an excuse to run 3phase to the shed

Now to go and beg Carbatec to please take my money. LOL

Originally Posted by gastraea

I was hoping to keep it to 2HP.

Here s a link on how to get the most out of a 2hp dusty

https://www.woodworkforums.com/f200/generic-2hp-dc-171247

Cheers

Doug

Have a look at Timbecon's website. They have a 3hp collector within your budget. I don't know what they are like - maybe BobL has an opinion.

http://www.timbecon.com.au/site-sear...st%20extractor

Welcome to the forum gastraea.

IO have been using a (much) older version of this I picked up second hand that has served me extremely well for about 10 years. I have a table saw, thicknesser Sliding compound mitre saw and now a band saw. I simply roll it to the maching and plug it in. I also use it as a sweep just by using the open 4" end. On the sliding compound saw I use a reducer. It is not the best on the mitre saw but it is effective enough to pick up most of the dust.

The up side is that it was cheap and effective. The down side is that it is a pain in the proverbial to roll it back and forth. But it has served me very well indeed.

I am about to embark on a major upgrade involving 6" duct, home built cyclone and second hand blower.

For your needs I would use the vac for hand tools then buy a smaller roll around unit such as this for the machines.

Originally Posted by safari

Have a look at Timbecon's website. They have a 3hp collector within your budget. I don't know what they are like - maybe BobL has an opinion.

http://www.timbecon.com.au/site-sear...st%20extractor

That DC has been around for decades and is restricted on the S shaped output side of the blower.
Modifications could be made to improve flow but it would take considerable effort.
The bags used on these DCs are like the H&F's DC7 models on the thin side so not very efficient and long term prone to getting holes in them.

Nevertheless if it is located or vented outside a shed it represents GVFM (GOOD VALUE FOR MONEY) and should easily pull a true 1000 CFM through 6" ducting and a well ported machine.
The claim is 14" of static pressure - I'd like to measure this as >12" is tough to get with expensive impellers let along budget model.

The 2HP Jet Vortex claim of 1200 CFM is fanciful. Those numbers are for the impeller only. with no bags, and measured according to a measurement standard that gives incorrect values.
Even worse the round shaped impeller exit makes it much harder to modify along the lines of my generic 2HP mod.

Originally Posted by BobL

That DC has been around for decades and is restricted on the S shaped output side of the blower.
Modifications could be made to improve flow but it would take considerable effort.
The bags used on these DCs are like the H&F's DC7 models on the thin side so not very efficient and long term prone to getting holes in them.

Nevertheless if it is located or vented outside a shed it represents GVFM (GOOD VALUE FOR MONEY) and should easily pull a true 1000 CFM through 6" ducting and a well ported machine.
The claim is 14" of static pressure - I'd like to measure this as >12" is tough to get with expensive impellers let along budget model.

The 2HP Jet Vortex claim of 1200 CFM is fanciful. Those numbers are for the impeller only. with no bags, and measured according to a measurement standard that gives incorrect values.
Even worse the round shaped impeller exit makes it much harder to modify along the lines of my generic 2HP mod.

Just to be clear are you saying that I can get 1000 CFM with this 3HP unit with or without modification?
By the looks of it I can spend $360 on a 2HP unit or $500 ($42 shipping) on a 3HP one.
My guess is that the 3HP one will be better in the long run.

Originally Posted by gastraea

My guess is that the 3HP one will be better in the long run.

Undoubtedly - if of course you have sufficient access to the necessary power to run it and the machine creating the dust at the same time.

If not then upgrade your power if you can, or go with a less powerful DE and make other arrangements to make up the shortfall (exhaust fans, whirlybirds, good ventilation, fans, or work outside when practical to do so.

Cheers

Doug

Originally Posted by gastraea

Just to be clear are you saying that I can get 1000 CFM with this 3HP unit with or without modification?

Yep - but as usual, must use 6" ducting all the way, must open up machine ports to suit, shortish ducting runs and keep bags clean

By the looks of it I can spend $360 on a 2HP unit or $500 ($42 shipping) on a 3HP one.
My guess is that the 3HP one will be better in the long run.

Yep definitely.