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  1. #1
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    Default Anything that can be done here?

    Ok so this is my tiny shop situation.

    The room is only 12 sqm (3X4), which is about 30 cubic metres of air in total.

    There is a double door and an opening awning window.

    The tools inside are a mitre saw, benchtop drill press, benchtop router table, air compressor inside an enclosure, and the tiniest band saw. Everything else is hand held, including a track saw. I don't intend to add any more power tools.

    The shop is generally tidy, I have a rule of leaving it as I found it and that means a 15 minute routine just to get out of the shop. But as you can imagine it's cluttered.

    This is what the walls look like:





    and of course on this side a giant old TV we're trying to sell, just what I needed in here




    Anyway the space is perfect for my needs, I'm not complaining at all. It might be tiny but it's 100% dedicated to woodworking (well, except that TV temporarily), and it's so well insulated for sound that I can cut all night and nobody will even notice.

    I work long hours and I may or may not have up to 10 hours of shop time per week, sometimes late at night, and that's usually split 5 hours of design/assembly/gluing and 5 hours of cutting/routing/sanding and other dust generating activities.

    In terms of dust I have two shop vacs, they attach to everything except the band saw and drill press, and they actually do a great job keeping the place clean from visible dust and chips.

    But I know this doesn't say anything about air quality so I wear a double cartridge P2 mask pretty much the whole time I'm in there.

    This is the outside:




    Two sides are right up against the fences and the other two are wedged between trees, so there's very little room to begin with.

    Also we have invested a fair bit of time/effort/money landscaping this place when we bought it so if I'm going to attach anything to the shed has to be as discreet as possible.

    Any opinions and realistic ideas are greatly appreciated. Cost is a factor obviously but at the end of the day anything is cheaper than trying to fix a damaged respiratory system, if there is a realistic dust extraction idea I'll try to make it work.

    Also as I've said in the other thread I don't mind wearing the mask at all, I just forget it's there after a while, but if I can reduce mask time or let someone else in there occasionally without them looking like a fighter pilot that would be great


    Cheers
    Spyro

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  3. #2
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    Default

    That does look like a nice little shed.

    3x4 by, I will estimate 2.7m, makes it about 32.5 m^2.
    To get 20 room air changes per hour you will need ~650 m^3 per hour.

    This flow could be generated by two standard bathroom exhaust fans.

    The best location for these would be up high on the back wall or even in the roof.
    You would need to keep one of the doors ajar by about 100 mm to enable air to circulate

    Except for when using machinery (not the DP), dustier making power tools, and the shop vacs (they can make more fine dust than they pick up) and for ~20 minutes thereafter this would allow you to operate without a mask.

    Two fans could be handy because you could run both for say 20 minutes after the dust making and then drop that to one after that.

    Another thing that would improve air quality is if the shop vacs have clearly defined air exits then vent these outside the shed. If not then maybe consider enclosing them in a mobile or fixed enclosure and venting the enclosure outside via 50 mm flexy.

    The other thing to consider would be 50 mm ducting for the vacs with 3-4 ports in teh ducting to connect the vacs up to and then vent the ducting outside.
    It must be time to change my signature again.

  4. #3
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    Default

    Bathroom fans... I can do that! Why didn't I think of that? Thanks a million Bob

    I might get a particle counter to see what the situation is generally, and with the shop vacs specifically but yes I can definitely build an enclosure or vent them outside, maybe a bag somewhere under those trees on the right.

    On to the drawing table

  5. #4
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    If you want something more robust than a bathroom exhaust fan (I don't believe their flow rates anyway) then something like this from the "grow your own" community is going to move more air, very quietly, for a long time. They cost much more than bathroom fans but are designed to run 24/7 so they will last.

    https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/6-INLINE....c100005.m1851

    Look around as there are a wide range of sizes available.
    It must be time to change my signature again.

  6. #5
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    Default

    Strange looking... I will investigate it, thanks. It looks like it's meant to hang from the ceiling?

    I was thinking of something like this:
    https://www.fansonline.com.au/commer...-shutters.html

    They have flow rates from 780m/Hr ($215) to 2280m/Hr ($355) allegedly.

  7. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spyro View Post
    Strange looking... I will investigate it, thanks. It looks like it's meant to hang from the ceiling?
    It's meant to hang inside a rectangular/square opening and then you baffle round the fan with some ply etc.
    I was thinking of something like this:
    https://www.fansonline.com.au/commer...-shutters.html
    They have flow rates from 780m/Hr ($215) to 2280m/Hr ($355)
    Avoid anything with any form of shutters or grille in front of them. If you get one with these - remove them, and if you are worried about the weather coming in fit a small plastic or sheet metal canopy across the top/sides of the fans

    Those fans are axial fans which are notoriously inefficient and is why most bathroom fans don't move much air. I can tell just by looking at those fans that the gap between the blades and the housing is too large and it won't pull the claimed flow rates.
    Screen Shot 2018-08-15 at 8.32.40 am.png

    An impeller that is fully enclosed or close fitting up against the fan housing will be the most effective. The ideal type of fan is a squirrel cage fan as these move huge amounts of air very efficiently. The grow your own type fans I referred to are kind of a hybrid squirrel cage and DC impeller style fan,
    It must be time to change my signature again.

  8. #7
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    Default

    Ok that makes sense.

    What do you think of placing 2 fans in opposing walls, one pushing fresh air in and the other one facing the other way and pulling dusty air out?

  9. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spyro View Post
    Ok that makes sense.

    What do you think of placing 2 fans in opposing walls, one pushing fresh air in and the other one facing the other way and pulling dusty air out?
    Trying to push fine dust is like herding cats - the push ends up spreading the dust into various nooks and crannies. If you want to use two fans make them both suck and put them separated as far apart as you can on the back wall and either put some vents in the wall with the door in it or leave the door ajar.
    It must be time to change my signature again.

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