Thread: Comparing 2 dust extractors. Which to buy?

Hilly since you have to use a generator to power your shop you could also consider a gas/diesel powered DC. You will need to locate an impeller and housing that can be belt driven by an engine and pull the air through a cyclone and let whatever the cyclone doesn't catch blow away. The CV 1800 cyclone only (no filters, motor, impeller) is about $700Aus. The impellers can be had from places like these or any other you might find. Or you could get the CV impeller and fan housing and make up your own shaft to mount it on. If you live that far from power I assume you are resourceful too. Maybe some old aluminium irrigation pipe in the area you could weld up for ducting.

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Pete

Originally Posted by Old Hilly

Well, I finally got the "Clearvue" page to open and while their product looks good it's out of my league price-wise and needs 3 phase to run. Looks like H&F is the way to go, not the best option but probably the cheaper option.

Price is indeed high but 3P is not a problem because the 4HP 3Phase motor can be powered by a VFD from single phase - flat out it only draws ~9A. The VFD can be used to generate a soft start which will keep the start up currents very low. The VFD can also be used to draw more air through the ducting.

Originally Posted by tonzeyd

Also I'd avoid the package deal, all the accessories that come standard are not very good quality and will end up on a shelf collecting dust.

Well, as long as the dust gets collected somewhere.

Originally Posted by Old Hilly

I realise that with my budget I will never get all the dust that these machines make but if I can get most of it, that will be a start. Then if I can find a comfortable dust filter mask that works without fogging up my glasses I will be really happy!

Be aware that there is a potential trap waiting for you here. It's the invisible dust that is the most dangerous (because it can penetrate further into lung tissue). The trap is that because it is invisible the temptation is "nothing to see here" and take the mask off prematurely. Others can advise on how many changes of air the room needs before you can unmask.

Bob, yes, I could convert the single phase output from the generator to 3 phase with some sort of VFD "black box" but this does 2 things: first, it adds another handful of dollar bills to the price and also adds inefficiency to the system. My guess is that I would loose 25% in the transformation from single to 3 phase. This is bringing the price of the Clearvue to well over $4,000, probably closer to $5,000 by the time we add ducting and all the extras needed.
"Fence Furniture" if the mask is comfortable, I am happy to wear it all day. It just has to be comfortable!

[QUOTE=Old Hilly;2057842]Bob, yes, I could convert the single phase output from the generator to 3 phase with some sort of VFD "black box" but this does 2 things: first, it adds another handful of dollar bills to the price and also adds inefficiency to the system. My guess is that I would loose 25% in the transformation from single to 3 phase.
Nope the current generation are between 2 and 4%

This is bringing the price of the Clearvue to well over $4,000, probably closer to $5,000 by the time we add ducting and all the extras needed.
"Fence Furniture" if the mask is comfortable, I am happy to wear it all day. It just has to be comfortable!

Yea - the price is a killer for a small DIY operation.
At some stage you have to weigh up what your health is worth, and the fact that the most risky thing DIY do is drive to the hardware store.

You could still get a 3phase 3HP DC and add a VFD to that - you can land a 3HP VFD in Aus direct from the Chinese Powtran VFD factory (Powtran is the same VFD as used by ClearVue) for around $200. Before you do that you have to be sure the 3Phase motor on the DC is convertible to 240/3P operation.

Bob, with all respect, converting 240V single phase AC to 415V 3 Phase AC and only loosing 4% for inefficiencies and losses in the VFD box seems just a bit on the low side but I could be wrong. Buying a VFD direct from China? I really do like the person I am swearing at when the thing doesn't work to be able to understand me. Buying from an Australian supplier gives me a feeling of security, at least the Dpt. of Fair Trading can chase them if there is something wrong.

deleted - duplicate post.

Originally Posted by Old Hilly

Bob, with all respect, converting 240V single phase AC to 415V 3 Phase AC and only loosing 4% for inefficiencies and losses in the VFD box seems just a bit on the low side but I could be wrong. Buying a VFD direct from China? I really do like the person I am swearing at when the thing doesn't work to be able to understand me. Buying from an Australian supplier gives me a feeling of security, at least the Dpt. of Fair Trading can chase them if there is something wrong.

If you want the VFD to convert from 240V single P to 415V 3P then you will need to spend a lot of money.

I'm not talking about doing this - what I am talking about are VFDs that convert 240V single phase to 240V 3phase.
I have 12 of these VFDs in my shed, from 1 up to 5HP and 9 of these are on machinery.
They do indeed operate at very high efficiency which is why they are increasingly used.

Now before you can use these VFDs the motor has to be configurable from 415V Y (Star) to 240v ∆ (Delta).
Many quality modern electric motors can do this by swapping around a couple of brass connection strips inside the motor connection box - it literally takes a couple minutes to do.
This enables European 3P motors to work in North America and VV.

Cheaper motors may be hard wired as 415V delta - in that case nothing can be done
Some a hard wired as 415V Y - these can be converted by someone that knows what they are doing or a motor rewinder but it will cost.

If you don't want to buy from china you can but from an Australian supplier (Conon motors) but it will cost you a little more
1.5kw/2HP 7A 240V AC single phase variable frequency drive inverter VSD VFD - Conon Motor

OH, I quite like the look of the W381 as well. No fuss, one stop shop for pretty good DC. No it's not as good as the full bells and whistles CV but it will still do a pretty good job, especially if you can put it outside. If, however, you entertain the idea of using a VFD on a 3 phase machine I'm happy to give you a hand to set it up. I've done a few and have a pretty good handle on it now.

Hmmmm, 240V, 3 phase motor? About a common as rocking horse manure out here in the bush. 415V star/delta motors are, on the other hand, readily available and cheap. If I was going to go with a VFD arrangement I would probably go for an industrial stepper motor and controller. But all I want is something I can plug into a power point and it works. I've had 40 years of cobbling together bits of stuff to make something that works as well as something I could buy off the shelf but cost me half as much but I no longer have the facilities or tools to do that now so I need to go "Plug & Play".
But then I could just use a DC7 3HP collector and mount it outside and forget the cyclone.

Originally Posted by Old Hilly

Hmmmm, 240V, 3 phase motor? About a common as rocking horse manure out here in the bush. 415V star/delta motors are, on the other hand, readily available and cheap. If I was going to go with a VFD arrangement I would probably go for an industrial stepper motor and controller. But all I want is something I can plug into a power point and it works. I've had 40 years of cobbling together bits of stuff to make something that works as well as something I could buy off the shelf but cost me half as much but I no longer have the facilities or tools to do that now so I need to go "Plug & Play".
But then I could just use a DC7 3HP collector and mount it outside and forget the cyclone.

o

Its a 415v 3 phase motor that has its connection changed from Y to Delta so it will run on 240v using a VFD, it’s not a 240v 3 phase motor.

Originally Posted by Old Hilly

Hmmmm, 240V, 3 phase motor? About a common as rocking horse manure out here in the bush. 415V star/delta motors are, on the other hand, readily available and cheap.

Sorry for going on about this but this is poorly understood so I want to clear it up for anyone else reading this

Almost any 415 motor currently running as star can be converted to 240 delta - even if it doesn't say so on the motor name plate.

But there are some provisos
1) If its a newer quality motor it's just a matter of switching a couple of connections inside the motor connection box - most folks don't know they can easily do this.
2) If its a cheap chinese motor or an old motor it might be hardwired as star so it will need to be converted internally and unless you are comfortable working inside a motor then it's a job for a motor rewinder.

Any 415V motor running as delta, it cannot be converted to run on 240V - well not without MAJOR surgery i.e. a rewind.

Keep your eye open for 3P motors that state on the name plate "415V Y / 240V ∆" - there are plenty out there.

so I need to go "Plug & Play". But then I could just use a DC7 3HP collector and mount it outside and forget the cyclone.

Yep thats what I would do.