22nd Aug 2004, 02:57 AM #1
How to make my Dual Cyclone - Dust Extractor
Here is follow up on my first thread, where I talked about my dual cyclone dust extractor. I have vastly improved the design, and also been able to simplify it as well. I have quite a few pictures so I will post a number of replies after this thread so you can see them all.
First I would like to say that this system is designed to work on a powerful vacuum cleaner - I have a 1200 Watt Vax connected to mine. It may not work as well with a less powerful cleaner.
I also doubt that it will work well in its current form if it was to be connected to a 100 mm pipe, and proper dust extractor. I do think the design can be modified to allow for greater air flow required for such a system, and I have some ideas on how to do that - but I haven't because I have found that the current system works so well, it might take me quite some time before I feel the urge to upgrade it.
One other point - I fully understand that good dust extraction requires 100 mm, or more, sized pipes to get the quantity of air flow to remove very fine dust, but I bet there are a lot of us that are still using a vacuum cleaner for our dust extraction. This dual cyclone will eliminate the need to empty bags, and greatly extend the life of the filters of these cleaners. It also appears to pull just about all the fine dust out of the air stream, and that can't be a bad thing.
A quick word on the flexible piping that I use in my shed - I got it at Bunnings - found it in the pool section - it's just the pipe used for a pool cleaner. It is fairly cheap and comes in a long roll, in a big box. It has an inside diameter of 32 mm, but works very well to pull dust. It has the same inside diameter as that flexible pipe that came with the Vax. To fix it to other pipes I have used a heat gun. When heated it can be coaxed onto the outside diameter of what I think is 25 mm PVC pipe, which has an inside diameter of 30 mm and an outside diameter of 34 mm. (With the heat gun I have found that I can use the fittings provided with the pool hose to carefully mold the PVC pipe to a smaller diameter - this is how I will attach things in future.)
(Pipe diameters appear to be different from what is shown - can anyone explain this to me?)
The design is very simple and is as follows in the next reply
Last edited by Turbulance; 22nd Aug 2004 at 05:11 PM.Paul
One day I will actually make something, Just you see.
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22nd Aug 2004, 02:58 AM #2
Meterials for Dual Cyclone
(Note – the pipe sizes 150 mm, 100 mm, and 65 mm are the marked sizes, and the pipes are sold this size, but the inside diameters appear to be a little larger – I am not sure why this is – again can anyone out there explain it?)
(As stated above, I also use a PVC pipe which I think is marked 25 mm, but is actually 30 mm inside diameter, 34 mm outside diameter – please check, I don’t think the pipe sizes are critical, but I can not guarantee that it will work if you make the smaller pipes too big.)
• 1 x bin for main waste – should be thick walled, and must be airtight. It must be large enough to take a lot of bulk wood dust, shavings, and chips. (I bought a big 115 litre, plastic bin form Bunnings, but soon found that it needed quite a bit of bracing to stop it from collapsing when a pipe got blocked.)
If you want to use a similar bin I show the bracing I made in a further reply in this thread, but I won't go into details, you will just have to come up with your own solution from the photos.
I have since seen some salvaged 44 gallon drums with a sealable lid for around $15.00 worth, which would have worked much better, and were half the price of the plastic bin. I couldn't get them in the car, and they would have been heavier to empty, but I wouldn't have had to make the bracing. Still you live and you learn.
•1 x 150mm PVC press-on end cap for PVC pipe
(Prepare to be shocked if you buy this at Bunnings, it is $17.00! Anyone know where you could get one of these cheaper – you could also use a 150 mm to 100 mm reducer – these are a little cheaper, and you wouldn’t need to cut a hole out of it. See below. Your chose - I have written these plans based on and end-cap.)
• 1 x 150 mm to 100 mm PVC reducer for PVC pipe (or two if you don’t buy the 150 mm end cap)
• 1 x 100 mm PVC end-cap for PVC pipe
• 1 x 65 mm PVC end-cap for PVC pipe
• 1 x 25 mm PVC end-cap for PVC pipe (34 mm inside diameter)
• 1 x 500 mm length of 150 mm PVC pipe
• 1 x 250 mm length of 100 mm PVC pipe
• 1 x 500 mm length of 65 mm PVC pipe
• 1 x 500 mm length of 25 mm PVC pipe (30 mm inside diameter)
• 2 x 40 mm hose clip
• 2 x Plastic D Handles – cheap but strong (two short self tapers to replace the supplied screws for these handles – new screws should be about 1” long only, as they will only be attaching the handles to PVC pipe)
• 3 x 1 ½” long ¼” bolt with nut – and two washers each
• 4 x 20 mm chipboard screws
• 1 length of thick draft exclusion self adhesive tape – if your bin lid needs to be sealed to make it airtight. Get slightly more than the circumference of the top of your bulk waste bin.
• A short length of 3 mm or less MDF (100 mm x 30 mm)
• 3 x short lengths of 6 mm MDF (50 mm by 25 mm approx – the width of these will need to be cut to fit later)
• 1 x 160 mm square piece of 6 mm MDF (Could be thicker)
• 2 x 100 mm square 6 mm MDF (Could be thicker)
• 1 x empty bottle of NEON washing powder– there should be many plastic bottles that can be used (see photos – it needs to be big enough to collected about a litre of dust – and have a good fitting lid that will fit over the outside diameter of a 65mm PVC end-cap)
• 1 x tube Silicon sealant
• 1 x roll of electrical insulation tape – good quality
• 1 x bottle of PVC glue
Last edited by Turbulance; 22nd Aug 2004 at 05:17 PM. Reason: Fixing some faulty text
22nd Aug 2004, 03:03 AM #3
Overly Detailed Instructions
1. Cut the length of 25 mm PVC pipe in half (2 x 250 mm length approx)
2. Cut the 65 mm PVC pipe to 400 mm
3. Cut a 10 mm length of 65 mm PVC pipe from the waste
4. Cut the 10 mm through one side so that it can open up and slide on the 65 mm pipe
5. Drill a hole just large enough to fit the 25 mm pipe, into the exact centre of the 100 mm end-cap
6. Drill a similar hole into the centre of the 65 mm end-cap
7. Fit the, and glue with PVC glue, the 65 mm end cap to one end of the 400 mm length of 65 mm pipe, wait for it to dry
8. Very important part
(This is the hardest part to make, and requires a gentle approach. A drill press and vice would be the best to use, but a hand drill, and a careful eye will also work, if you have the tube firmly secured. Don’t try to drill this just holding the pipe in your hands, you have been warned!)
Drill 8 or so ¾” holes, into the sides of the end cap.
The aim is drill each hole though the edge of the end-cap to make a mini turbine.
Place the end-cap so that the drill is vertical, and the outside edge of the drill just over 5 mm inside the very edge of the end-cap.
Drill very slowly through the end-cap, and 65 mm pipe that is inside it– if done right the drill should just clear the inside edge of the 65 mm pipe.
Stop once the hole has just cut through, and be very careful as the drill can grab the pipe at the last second, throw it up, and break the pipe, and end-cap, just go very slow at the end, and have everything very firmly held – not with your hands alone!
Rotate the pipe until there is enough un-drilled area to drill the next hole.
Continue this until you come back to the first hole.
The holes do not have to be accurate – but they must all point the same way.
When you have finished drilling use a round, rat tail file, and clean them up.
You can also file a grove into the edge of the end cap to continue the hole along the outside edge of the end cap, but this is not critical
9. Cut the 3mm strip of MDF, and fit it into one end of one of the pieces of the 25 mm pipe. Push it in until all it is all the way in, and flush with the end of the pipe. It should fit into the centre of the pipe – splitting the pipe in two equal sections.
(The idea here is to make it very hard for rotating air to go up the pipe, not sure if it works like that in practice - but it what I did, and my system work very well so I wouldn't change it)
10. Insert the 25 mm pipe into the hole in the 65 mm end cap, until there is just 50 mm left exposed to the oustide. The end of the pipe with the MDF should be inside the 65 mm pipe
11. Put PVC glue on the surface of the 65 mm end-cap, and then push the 100 mm end-cap on to the end of the 25 mm pipe until the 65 mm end-cap is pressed firmly onto the inside of the 100 mm end-cap – both caps must be facing the same way so that the 100 mm pipe can be push into the 100 mm end-cap, and surround the 65 mm pipe
12. Apply more PVC glue to the exposed part of the 25 mm pipe to seal it to the 100 mm end-cap. Allow to everything to dry
3. Fit the 150 mm – 100 mm reducer to the top of the 150 mm pipe
14. Fit the 100 mm pipe into the top of the reducer, and then place a D-Handle on one side to allow you to mark a position where the handle will fit comfortably, vertically, on the side of the 100 mm pipe
15. Remove the 100 mm pipe, and bore two holes to fit the D-Handle to the side of the pipe
16. Drill two more holes directly opposite on the other side of the 100 mm pipe to fit the other D-Handle
17. Put a small amount of silicon around the holes so that it will seal the holes, and base of the handles to the pipe against the 100 mm pipe
18. Screw the D-handles to the sides of the pipe. (A stubby screwdriver, small hands, and patience will be required to screw up the handles)
19. Cut a hole just large enough to fit the lid of the Neon bottle over the 65 mm pipe
20. Push the cap onto the 65 mm pipe so that the bottle can be fitted to the bottom of the pipe
21. Push the 10 mm piece of split 65 mm pipe, onto the end of the 400 mm length of 65 mm pipe, just under the bottle cap
22. Use electrical tape, and rap it around the 10 mm of split pipe, and to the base of the 65 mm pipe, push the bottle lid down against the split pipe - you could also add some silicon - but I found that it wasn't required on mine
23. Wrap some electrical tape around the 65 mm pipe above the bottle lid to stop the lid from pushing up the 65 mm pipe. (Using tape will allow you to replace the bottle lid later if required – if you glue the lid on you may have trouble later if the lid or bottle breaks)
24. Check that the bottle will fit over, and seal onto its lid. If it doesn’t you may need to carefully sand the split length of pipe down, and / or remove some of the insulation tape
25. Once the bottle is attached push the 100 mm pipe up over it, and firmly into the 100 mm end-cap
26. Cut the 6mm MDF into 50 mm lengths, then slowly cut its width down until it just press fits between the inside of the 100 mm pipe, and the outside of the 65 mm pipe
27. Push the other two pieces in at 120 degrees to the first, and each other. If done right they will hold the 65 mm pipe firmly in the centre of the 100 mm pipe without blocking the flow of air up the pipe
28. Drill three ¼” holes in to the flat surface of the 150 mm end cap, space them in approximately 15 mm from the inside edge of the cap, and 120 degrees apart from each other. Allow enough room for the edge of each ¼” bolt, and the inside edge of the 150 mm pipe when it is fitted to the end-cap. You don’t want it sitting on the bolt heads
29. Scribe a circle inside the 150 mm end-cap approximately 100 mm in diameter
30. Drill one ¼” hole in the centre of the 150 mm end-cap
31. Drill one ¼” hole into the centre of the waste bin lid
32. Drill one ¼” hole into the centre of the 160 mm square MDF
33. Place the MDF on the inside of the lid, the 150 mm end-cap on the outside of the lid, and bolt two pieces together though the lid, with one of the quarter bolt and nuts
34. Drill the three ¼” holes trough the lid, and MDF, using the 150 mm end-cap as a template
35. Fit two of the bolts, with washers both sides, through two of the newly drilled holes, and tighten
36. Drill a hole big enough for a jigsaw blade to fit trough, just inside the scribed 100 mm circle
37. Cut out the circle with a jigsaw. Use an appropriate blade to match the material of the bin lid.
(Doing it this way saves time, and will get the holes all the same size, and shape)
38. Retrieve the bolt, nut, and washers from the waste circle
39. Fit the last bolt, nut and washers through the third hole
40. Fix the two pieces of 100 mm square MDF together, with the four chipboard screws, dill pilot holes 35 mm in from each corner. (Note: the screws will protrude; don’t worry about that for now. Just turn the boards over so the screws point up)
41. Dill a hole into the exact centre of the joined MDF boards, just big enough to push the 25 mm pipe through the two boards of MDF
42. Drill a similar hole into the top of the bin lid, more than 100 mm in from the edge of the bin, so that the two pieces of 100 mm square MDF will fit over it
43. Unscrew the two pieces of MDF, and use one as a template to mark, and drill four clearance holes into the bin lid
44. Apply silicone to the top, and bottom of the lid, around the four holes, and the large centre hole
45. Push the two pieces of MDF together on each side of the lid, and screw together using the chipboard screws
46. Push the 25 mm pipe through the holes, leave about 50 mm exposed to the outside of the lid, and silicon around the pipe where it emerges from the MDF boards inside, and out – allow time for it to dry
47. Fit the hose, which will collect the dust, to the outside part 25 mm pipe fixed to the lid, and secure it with a hose clip.
(A heat gun is great to soften the flexible pipe so it will slide onto the 25 mm pipe - don't mold the PVC as you want as much diameter as possible - a restriction here could block the pipe!)
48. Attach the draft exclusion tape to the top of the bin, in such away that it will seal the edges of the bin to the lid, but not stop the lid from being fixed down to the bin. How you do this will depend on what type of bin you have
49. Place the lid on the bin, and fix it in place with what ever means was provided with the bin – you may not need anything if the bin lid, and cyclone are heavy enough, and the draft tape is well fixed.
(The vacuum created by mine is so powerful I can lift the bin off the floor without the lid being fixed at all!)
50. Push the 100 mm pipe, with handles, into the top of the 150 mm to 100 mm reducer
51. Attach the hose to the vacuum cleaner to the top 25 mm pipe using a hose clip, and heat gun if required
52. Setup the vacuum cleaner – which should be cleaned of all dust. (Note: new filters, and bags should only be used after the cyclone is proven to be working, otherwise they can be ruined)
53. Power the vacuum cleaner on, and start to vacuum up some wood dust, check the bin seal, cyclone, and attached pipes for any air leaks, and fix them if found; also check that the bin can handle a blocked pipe, by using our hand
54. When you have removed about a bucket of dust, and wood chips, turn everything off, and check the bin – it should have the bulk of the dust in it
55. Remove the 100 mm pipe using the D-Handles
56. Gently pull of the bottle, and check for dust – you should find a small amount of very fine dust in the bottom of the bottle
57. Check the vacuum cleaner – if all has worked to plan you should find very little to no dust in the cleaner
Pitcures to follow.
Last edited by Turbulance; 22nd Aug 2004 at 05:33 PM. Reason: More bad typing - an many improvments to the wording
22nd Aug 2004, 03:09 AM #4
Inside the Dual Cyclone
These pictures show various parts of the dual cyclone, as it is taken apart.
Note: the last picture shows the mini turbine drilled into the 65 mm end-cap. I have modified my design a number of times, so you will see another end-cap that is no longer required. I had a 90 mm pipe around the 65 mm pipe, but it was found to be a major problem, and once removed allowed the cyclone to work better.
The Neon bottle should be replaceable with any bottle that will fit.
See next reply for an example of the amount of dust that is removed...
22nd Aug 2004, 03:19 AM #5
The big bin get most of it, the little bottle gets just about everything else. The dust in the bottle is like photocopier toner, and actually appears floats in the bottom of the bottle. I tried to show how fine it is by photographing it being sucked up. Hope you get the idea.
Next reply - how much gets to the vacuum cleaner filters.
22nd Aug 2004, 03:27 AM #6
The Proof is in the Filters and Bags
This is how well it works, I have been using the dual cyclone for a week, and have vacumed, and sawed quit a bit of dust. I bought new filters, and a new bag for the Vax. The photos tell the story better than me!
22nd Aug 2004, 03:30 AM #7
The Frame I had to Make
Just a rough bit of bush joinery here!
22nd Aug 2004, 11:21 AM #8
Thanks a lot Turbalance, I like the way that you have gone against the trend of 6" pipe everywhere. I cannot use a 6" pipe myself and was looking for a good alternative. This is it.
A greenie for you.Bob Willson
The term 'grammar nazi' was invented to make people, who don't know their grammar, feel OK about being uneducated.
22nd Aug 2004, 05:35 PM #9Originally Posted by Bob WillsonPaul
One day I will actually make something, Just you see.
23rd Aug 2004, 02:10 AM #10
P.S. Whats a "Greenie" anyway? Doesn't sound too nice.
23rd Aug 2004, 05:44 AM #11Senior Member
Originally Posted by Turbulance
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Click on the scales underneath (on someone else's post!) to add rep points.
23rd Aug 2004, 08:23 AM #12
Thanks hexbaz - not what I was thinking at all.
23rd Aug 2004, 07:45 PM #13Most Valued Member
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Your post again takes a different approach to dust collection. Congratulations on adding to this most important subject.
Similarly your post on knobs also takes a different approach to my post on knobs. It all adds to our combined knowledge base.
It is great to see someone new joining the ranks of jig posters. Keep it up and I look forward to seeing more of your ideas.
24th Aug 2004, 12:44 AM #14
Thank you for you kind remarks - I have had some fun writing the threads, and making the contraptions. Somewhere along the line I will actually start making something like tables and chairs from all these tools that I am collecting. My first major project is a picture frame - that's why I had to finish the router table.
I have made the router table from one of those cheap work benches with vice, that Bunnies sell, with roller, for $25.00 - I will be posting some pictures of it probably tomorrow. I finished the feathers on it tonight - that's why I needed the knobs. It's not too bad - and has a 6mm 500 x 400 plate of aluminium for the main table surface
Hope to have some more ideas later too.Paul
One day I will actually make something, Just you see.
27th Aug 2004, 08:21 PM #15Senior Member
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Fantastic, how on earth did you come up with the design? The instructions are so detailed I'll have to print them off and read them a couple of times.
As for the comments about the sizing of Pipes. I'm not quite sure what you mean, but the size marked on PIPE be it PVC or steel, is a "nominal bore size". This is why water pipe is sold as NB20 for example. Another clever (and sometime annoying) idea that manufacturers of PCV PIPE do, is that no two systems of PVC PIPE will match EG Sewer pipe will not match with Pressure pipe. When you try to build something like your cyclone it makes it difficult to match components together. Electrical conduit however, is TUBE which is measured on the outside diameter so it is the actual size marked. The exception to this is 100mm conduit, its about 113mm. I haven't found anyone who makes a 100mm diameter PVC Tube.
Well done, hope this helps,