Thread: Dust Extraction

Originally Posted by wooden plane

Hi All
I'm looking for some information, I have a home built cyclone system (large) run by an adapted 1997 model 2hp Jet DC1200 10" impeller, works like a charm but as with most things I make I like to adapt in the hope of improving performance. I believe I could change the 10" impeller for a 12" reversed blade impeller, hopefully without too much change to the basic structure, does anyone on the forum know if this is feasible and will fit and if so where in Oz is it possible to buy the 12" reversed bade impeller. I have a 6mt x 6mt workshop and seem to be adding more piping so a little more oomph would not go astray

Firstly if it is a 10" impeller with a cyclone then I seriously doubt it works like a charm.
A 10" impeller will only move a small amount of air and adding a cyclone to it will restrict it even further so then it simply won't capture fine/invisible dust at the source for most WW machinery.

Are you sure its 10" or 2HP? as I have never heard of a 2HP 10" impeller Jet.
All the older 2HP jets I have seen have been 12".
I have seen a 1 or maybe it was a 1.5HP Jet that had a 10" impeller and fitting a 12" impeller to that would destroy the motor.

Adding more piping to a small DC with a choked inlet and outlet is only going to send you backwards. Anyway lets find out what the DC really is and take it form there.

BobL
You are absolutely right, it is a 12" impeller, I put this thing together a while ago and had it in my mind that it was a 10" one, I did design and build the system for the 12" but that was a while ago, must be getting old and infirm.
The whole system actually works very nicely but I feel an upgrade may help as my main problem is the dust bin on my TS (Jet JTSA-10-1/3) does not empty properly and I feel a bit better flow may fix that. I have 11 pick-up points and need to add another 2, I only open one at a time. I have 6" main piping with 4" feeds and minimal flex hose.
Seeing as how you corrected me on the impeller size, do you think a 13" may help?

Thanks Mike

Originally Posted by wooden plane

BobL
You are absolutely right, it is a 12" impeller, I put this thing together a while ago and had it in my mind that it was a 10" one, I did design and build the system for the 12" but that was a while ago, must be getting old and infirm.

Ha - I'm on the same queue.

The whole system actually works very nicely but I feel an upgrade may help as my main problem is the dust bin on my TS (Jet JTSA-10-1/3) does not empty properly and I feel a bit better flow may fix that. I have 11 pick-up points and need to add another 2, I only open one at a time. I have 6" main piping with 4" feeds and minimal flex hose.
Seeing as how you corrected me on the impeller size, do you think a 13" may help?

12" is about the max a 2HP motor can cope with without drawing too much current and overheating the motor. You will need a beefy 3HP motor to use a 13" impeller but I would not replaced the motor and impeller - see below.

The bottle necks in your system are
a) The DC itself
b) the use of 4" ducting and dust ports on machines

If you want extra performance have a read of the sticky at the top of the dust forum which show how to modify a 2HP DC to better utilise full 6" or near equivalent flow through the 12" impeller and filter bag housing and then run 6" ducting all the way to the machines.

Machines using 4" ports will be overly choked and the 4" ports will need to be replaced with 6" ports - spend a bit of time borrowing these forums as there are many posts showing how to do this.

If you are electrically savvy, to get even more performance from a 2HP DC you could consider replacing the single phase motor with a 2HP 3Phase motor and VFD and then drive the motor at 60Hz. They can easily do this because this is what happens in North America where they use 60Hz Power.

The limit then becomes the fact that most 2HP DCs only have a single filter bag and this is why double+ bags are used on DCs greater than 2HP. And this is why I would not recommend replacing the 2HP/12" with a 3HP/13".

Mike, it may sound like BobL is rattling his chains, but as you spend longer on this page you will find him amazingly knowledgeable, he is also only too happy to share his thoughts . The man has done his homework and research, we bow (usually...or get shot down) to his wisdom and knowledge, he must get cranky at home (at times) when people ask the same question in different ways.

I am trying to stop asking q and search these pages because the answer is there somewhere and we/I will learn more

Thanks Bob, I will study the info a bit deeper, your input is just great, I've read reams of stuff about the subject and at times have astounded myself by actually understanding it, then next thing confusion reigns supreme. When building my system I must have gotten it pretty right, maybe I just need to tweak those ducting runs and ports and a bit more application to detail. My electrical knowledge is pretty basic although I sometimes surprise myself, I did consider 3ph at the beginning but setting it up would have been excessively expensive for me, I have to work with what I've got so as you say, more study is required.
Thanks again
regards Mike

Hi Tonto, Yes I believe BobL is the go-to man for lots of subjects on these forums, I have been reading him and others for some years now and get a lot of useful info from these pages. Us enthusiastic amateurs do get better as time goes on but sometimes I feel I've forgotten more than I ever knew and am having to learning all over again.

Regards Mike

Thank you for the compliments guys. Much appreciated. I will see about powder coating the chains so they make less noise

Originally Posted by wooden plane

Thanks Bob, I will study the info a bit deeper, your input is just great, I've read reams of stuff about the subject and at times have astounded myself by actually understanding it, then next thing confusion reigns supreme. When building my system I must have gotten it pretty right, maybe I just need to tweak those ducting runs and ports and a bit more application to detail. My electrical knowledge is pretty basic although I sometimes surprise myself, I did consider 3ph at the beginning but setting it up would have been excessively expensive for me, I have to work with what I've got so as you say, more study is required.

You don't need to have 3 Phase in your shed to use a VFD. Part of the operation of a VFD is to convert single phase 240V to 3 phase 240V so provided 240V 3P motors are used they will run just fine.

I don't have 3 phase on my shed but my MW and WW lathe, DP, BSander and BSaw, Bench grinders, DC and and an exhaust fan all run 3 Phase motors using VFDs. It's not something I would normally recommend "just cos" for a DC but if you are going to mess with it and have some electrical smarts it is a useful option. At least one other member here has done this conversion. If you can do it yourself using a used motor then after doing all those other things (eg upsize ducting opening up machine dust ports etc) a 3phase motor plus a VFD can be one of the cheapest 20% instant boosts to any (even a 4" ducting) system.

Just a warning though, the extra speed of the hissing air can be very irritating OTOH I set mine up so I can run it a any speed with presets for 40Hz, 50Hz and 60Hz. The 60Hz is only used when I'm doing something really dusty, normally i use 50Hz, while for general ventilation with a bunch of gates open I just use 40Hz as it is nice and quiet at this speed.

Thanks Bob, I understand the VFD's use, I'm not really confident enough to do any electrics myself (plugs only), all my gear is single phase Jet, Woodfast and Kira. The ducting and inlets would probably be the simplest attempt at a fix for me to do and that still leaves the VFD option open for later on, if and when I collect my lottery winnings, I have just read the sticky, I didn't know it was there, a great amount of info there and very relevant to my situation, very much appreciated. I already have the 6" inlet to the impeller but not the exhaust, that won't be hard to modify, don't know how I overlooked that in the building phase. My filter is outside in it's own shelter, the ducting into the filter housing will be simple allI I need then is to extend the vertical ducting as 6" and closer to the machinery, I can also combine a couple of pick-ups into manifolds.
I'll see how that goes first, I love your detailed analysis of everything, I have a better understand of what I'm doing now, even if I don't know how you do it, and I see the light at the end of the duct.
Thanks, Mike

Look forward to seeing how you get on.

Will do, we have a bit of very hot weather here for a week or two and my shed is a bit of a stinker so may take a bit to get in there, but I will keep in touch and thanks.
regards Mike