Thread: Dust extraction for a small shop

Originally Posted by derekcohen

OK Bob, it is time I did something about my system. Soo ... I thought I would start with enclosing the DC (which has a PF! ) in a MDF cabinet. That will also help keep noise down (I cannot site it outdoors - the neighbours will bear the brunt of the noise and the dust, and I will have to tell them you told me to do it, and then ... )

I know you need another project like a hole in the head but i'm sure you could design and build a very tasteful external sound proofed enclosure using some suitable material in keeping with the rest of the house and garage. Then the neighbours wouldn't even see or hear the DC or the fine dust that escapes, most of theta will settle inside the enclosure. Last time checked you did have some leaks in your DC - assuming they were fixed then most of the fine dust that you see in the shed is not escaping from the DC it's just what is not being collected to begin with.

BTW What is under the stairs leading to the upstairs area above the garage?

My question is "where and how does one vent the cabinet?". What does one do if the cabinet cannot be vented outdoors? - brick walls!

You could get some large diameter silver foil aircon ducting and run that from an internal cabinet under the garage door and down the side. But is that going to stand out much more than a tasteful enclosure of some kind.

Derek having seen your setup I can make a number of general comments
Because you make a lot of use of hand tools and when your garage front door and back doors are open and the Fremantle doc is in you are a long way there already with shed ventilation.
That ambience is too nice to change.
As far a machinery goes your main problem is the same as 95% of woodworkers, 4" flexy on a 2HP DC will always struggle to control fine dust.

It all depends how far you want to go in controlling fine dust.

In order of priority
External venting of DC
6" ducting
Reduce use of flexy
More powerful DC
bigger ports in machinery

That should do it.

HAHAHA this is the exact thing I was going to ask. Was also wondering if anyone had pics of their enclosure they would like to share.

I definitely cannot house my DC in an external enclosure, one side of my workshop is a boundary wall with my neighbor, one side is my driveway and the street, one side is a wall to my lounge room and the other side goes to my back garden outside the lounge room window and SWMBO will certainly not allow me to build an enclosure out there so the DC must be enclosed inside my workshop so I'm guessing one port with pipe coming out to the machines and a port on the other side that I can run under my garage door as an external vent, would this be right?

Originally Posted by derekcohen

OK Bob, it is time I did something about my system. Soo ... I thought I would start with enclosing the DC (which has a PF! ) in a MDF cabinet. That will also help keep noise down (I cannot site it outdoors - the neighbours will bear the brunt of the noise and the dust, and I will have to tell them you told me to do it, and then ... )

My question is "where and how does one vent the cabinet?". What does one do if the cabinet cannot be vented outdoors? - brick walls!

Regards from Perth

Derek

If you can't enclose the DC outside, Can you vent it outside from an internal enclosure i.e.build your enclose in your shed and cut a vent through the wall? You can also look for a suitable filter for an industrial aircon our a furnace filter so you are at least, attempting to control the overall escaping fines that vent outside.

Zelk has done a good enclosure that vents out through a window

Originally Posted by Dazm

I definitely cannot house my DC in an external enclosure, one side of my workshop is a boundary wall with my neighbor, one side is my driveway and the street, one side is a wall to my lounge room and the other side goes to my back garden outside the lounge room window and SWMBO will certainly not allow me to build an enclosure out there so the DC must be enclosed inside my workshop so I'm guessing one port with pipe coming out to the machines and a port on the other side that I can run under my garage door as an external vent, would this be right?

If you poke it out under a garage door the rest of the gap needs to be sealed
OR
the ducting has to be long enough to at least run around to the wall adjacent to toe door and preferably around the back.
AND
there has to be a major opening (door/window/vent) in the wall opposite the DC vent outlet.

If you don't do that the immediacy of the the DC vent (high pressure) to the inlet vent (low pressure) will just bring all the fines back into the shed.
This is also why it is a waste of time using a DC just outside a doorway.

Man this is a good thread. I know most/all this information has been said before, but BobL, your list to Derek C., giving the order of importance/influence regarding extraction changes is so helpful. Thank you for taking the time to write it down again. [emoji4]


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Originally Posted by BobL

I know you need another project like a hole in the head but i'm sure you could design and build a very tasteful external sound proofed enclosure using some suitable material in keeping with the rest of the house and garage. Then the neighbours wouldn't even see or hear the DC or the fine dust that escapes, most of theta will settle inside the enclosure. Last time checked you did have some leaks in your DC - assuming they were fixed then most of the fine dust that you see in the shed is not escaping from the DC it's just what is not being collected to begin with.

BTW What is under the stairs leading to the upstairs area above the garage?


You could get some large diameter silver foil aircon ducting and run that from an internal cabinet under the garage door and down the side. But is that going to stand out much more than a tasteful enclosure of some kind.

Derek having seen your setup I can make a number of general comments
Because you make a lot of use of hand tools and when your garage front door and back doors are open and the Fremantle doc is in you are a long way there already with shed ventilation.
That ambience is too nice to change.
As far a machinery goes your main problem is the same as 95% of woodworkers, 4" flexy on a 2HP DC will always struggle to control fine dust.

It all depends how far you want to go in controlling fine dust.

In order of priority
External venting of DC
6" ducting
Reduce use of flexy
More powerful DC
bigger ports in machinery

That should do it.

Excellent Bob!!

Many thanks

Derek

Originally Posted by BobL

I know you need another project like a hole in the head but i'm sure you could design and build a very tasteful external sound proofed enclosure using some suitable material in keeping with the rest of the house and garage. Then the neighbours wouldn't even see or hear the DC or the fine dust that escapes, most of theta will settle inside the enclosure. Last time checked you did have some leaks in your DC - assuming they were fixed then most of the fine dust that you see in the shed is not escaping from the DC it's just what is not being collected to begin with.

BTW What is under the stairs leading to the upstairs area above the garage?


You could get some large diameter silver foil aircon ducting and run that from an internal cabinet under the garage door and down the side. But is that going to stand out much more than a tasteful enclosure of some kind.

Derek having seen your setup I can make a number of general comments
Because you make a lot of use of hand tools and when your garage front door and back doors are open and the Fremantle doc is in you are a long way there already with shed ventilation.
That ambience is too nice to change.
As far a machinery goes your main problem is the same as 95% of woodworkers, 4" flexy on a 2HP DC will always struggle to control fine dust.

It all depends how far you want to go in controlling fine dust.

In order of priority
External venting of DC
6" ducting
Reduce use of flexy
More powerful DC
bigger ports in machinery

That should do it.

Hey Bob.


Just a quick question as I'm about to install ducting in my workshop. Would you recommend 4" or 6" pipe for my 2HP dust extractor?

I will have a run of 6m along one wall then 90 degrees and a 3m run along the other wall to my DE, the handsaw (and eventually a jointer) will be at the opposite end to the DE, a run of around 9m and my table saw and router table will be in the middle. I'll have blast gates on each machine but I'm worried that the DE is not strong enough to work with 6" pipe.

Interested in your thoughts.

Cheers

Darren.

Originally Posted by BobL

Zelk has done a good enclosure that vents out through a window


If you poke it out under a garage door the rest of the gap needs to be sealed
OR
the ducting has to be long enough to at least run around to the wall adjacent to toe door and preferably around the back.
AND
there has to be a major opening (door/window/vent) in the wall opposite the DC vent outlet.

If you don't do that the immediacy of the the DC vent (high pressure) to the inlet vent (low pressure) will just bring all the fines back into the shed.
This is also why it is a waste of time using a DC just outside a doorway.

Actually I've hit a snag, I have limited space under my benches and I can only fit 4" pipe under them (this is after notching some out) will 4" still work ok? Will it make a huge difference?

Darren.

Originally Posted by Dazm

Actually I've hit a snag, I have limited space under my benches and I can only fit 4" pipe under them (this is after notching some out) will 4" still work ok? Will it make a huge difference.

Short answer is using only 4" ducting is sure way to leave considerable amounts of fine dust behind in the shed

6" ducting will only make a difference if the 2HP DC is modified according to the method shown in the Sticky on this subject at the top of the Dust forum.
2HP DCs (especially when unmodified) are not really designed to be used with 9m runs of any ducting so don't expect much from such a setup.
Using ~1m of ducting on a modified DC the 6" ducting has an ~80% difference greater flow rate.
As the ducting gets longer the flow rate decreases more for 4" than for 6", so at 9m the difference will be much greater than for 1m.

But if you physically cannot fit the 6" then you have no choice - just don't expect too much from it

Do you think it will still have enough suction to remove the dust/chips etc to keep things clean?

My main reason for having the long run is so I can wheel the DC outside to keep the fine dust out of the shed as much as possible.

Originally Posted by Dazm

Do you think it will still have enough suction to remove the dust/chips etc to keep things clean?
My main reason for having the long run is so I can wheel the DC outside to keep the fine dust out of the shed as much as possible.

Putting the DC outside is the single best thing you can do even if long ducting runs are used - at least you are getting rid of some of the fine dust.
However you won't collect as many chips so you have to decide if you want to continually remove fine duct or collect chips.
Remember you can always sweep up the chips later as they don't physically harm you.

Think of it like this.
Imaging you are in a boat that has a leak and you are bailing with a bucket.
Putting the DC outside is like using a bucket with no holes in it whereas leaving the DC inside will be like bailing with a bucket with lots of holes in it.
Using a big DC with 6" ducting is like using a big bucket and using 4" ducting is like using a small bucket.
If the water comes in faster that the bucket can empty it - then eventually your shed air will fill up with fine dust

Using longer ducting is like needing to climb more ladders in the boat to bring up the water that has come into the boat.

I doubt it will keep things clean because most woodworking dust making processes generate dust faster than the air flows that long runs of 4" ducting can generate.

Thanks Bob, great explanation.

I think I'm about ready to give up on this dust collection business, I can't get the DC outside without a long run which means 4" pipe.

Hi Dazm: Don't give up! BobL's advice might not be popular at times, but think where we would all be without him! 😳 While we may wish it were easier, dust control is fundamentally clear (thanks Bob) but sometimes difficult to implement for a variety of reasons, whether power constraints, money constraints, space constraints (like you), or otherwise. We're all in the same "boat" doing the best we can. Lol! 😊

Oh please don't get me wrong, Bob's advice is awesome and very much appreciated, it's the environment that I have to deal with that is causing me angst.

I think an inbuilt system is just too difficult for me to achieve with the space and constraints I have, I think I'm going to have to settle for rolling out the DC and hooking it up to each individual machine.