Thread: Dust extractor question + setup

Originally Posted by qwertyu

I have a carbatec dust extractor (which is no longer sold by them). Though it looks exactly like this:
https://www.machineryhouse.com.au/W397 . Its the same specs too - 3phase 3hp and there are 3 100mm dust inlets like this hafco one. My filter bag is smaller and looks different, in fact, I dont think its actually a filter but just a cloth bag.

I would like to move it outside of the shed to reduce noise and minimize dust from leakage. It would mean it will be quite far away from the furthest machine though - approx 18m away from thicknesser.

18m is a long way for a 3HP DC even using 6" ducting trunk line. Normally one would consider using the next size up ducting for such a long run. Unfortunately in PVC this is 240 mm even though its called 225mm ducting and this DC cannot generate the air flow to keep saw dust in suspension in such a large pipe. You will thus have to stick to 150mm ducting and wear the loss of flow this generates. What about enclosing the DC inside the shed and using a chimney and venting it upwards?

Should I get a new bag filter or can a canister type filter be retrofitted?

Both are possible.

What would be more efficient?

provided the impeller fan is up for it, pleated filters give more flow for longer than bag type filters - I would say if you are going for the 18m long 150mm diameter ducting run then a pleated filters would be even more significant.

I suppose filtration isnt #1 priority if its outside the shed?

Correct - besides, after a few hours of collections it's the sawdust itself that does most of teh filtering.

Which will be cheapest in the long run in terms of replacements? How long does each type last?

Do you mean physical replacement OR cleaning?
In a DIY in an enclosure situation you should never have to physically replace either.
In terms of cleaning the pleated filters should last at least double the bags.

I assume it would be more efficient to remove the 3 inlets for a single very large pipe (unsure which size would be best) - is this correct?

Not just efficient but ESSENTIAL.

and use Y connectors and blast gates at each machine with 150mm pipes?

The blast gates should preferably be located where the machine ducting joins the trunk line.

The inlets are at the bottom and I plan on plumbing on the roof - what sort of angle should the initial large pipe be on its incline to the roof?

It does not matter.

it would be cheapest for me to just use a really long 3 phase power cable then to move the power outlet - does this reduce the machine's power? (should prob get a really large gauge but will need to speak to electrician about it)

If you were to use a quality 2.5mm2 core cable you should be OK.

It depends on the motor but it may be amenable to running via a VFD - this would enable you to spin it at 60Hz rather than 50Hz and go some way towards making up for the longer trunk line.

Wow - thanks for the comprehensive reply!

Originally Posted by BobL

18m is a long way for a 3HP DC even using 6" ducting trunk line. Normally one would consider using the next size up ducting for such a long run. Unfortunately in PVC this is 240 mm even though its called 225mm ducting and this DC cannot generate the air flow to keep saw dust in suspension in such a large pipe. You will thus have to stick to 150mm ducting and wear the loss of flow this generates. What about enclosing the DC inside the shed and using a chimney and venting it upwards?

Enclosing it inside is an option - it was thought about. If the loss in air flow will be great I'll just keep it inside. How far can this dust extractor suck well? At the location I'm thinking it will be about 6m away from the furthest machine. Also, there will be machines to the left and the right of the DC - how does one plumb that?

How powerful of a machine is necessary if I were to place it 18m away?

Do you mean physical replacement OR cleaning?
In a DIY in an enclosure situation you should never have to physically replace either.
In terms of cleaning the pleated filters should last at least double the bags.

Sounds like pleated filters would be best for me if it will last ages.

Not just efficient but ESSENTIAL.

The hole to sucker, once the 3 to 1 port is removed looks like its going to be huge. Is there any benefit going larger than 150 (but smaller then 225) if I find another type of pipe that is say, 175mm? (or not worth the effort)

The blast gates should preferably be located where the machine ducting joins the trunk line.

Just so Im completely clear - that is, right after the Y joint? And after blast gate is the flexi pipe to the machine?

Also, is flexi pipe less efficient than PVC/smoothed walled pipe?

Just thinking about this more - should prob have blast gates to close of the left and right side of the work shop depending on which side I need the extraction?

Originally Posted by qwertyu

Wow - thanks for the comprehensive reply!

You got me recovering from a flu and bung knee so I'm bored and have little else to do.

Enclosing it inside is an option - it was thought about. If the loss in air flow will be great I'll just keep it inside. How far can this dust extractor suck well?

[QUOTE]At the location I'm thinking it will be about 6m away from the furthest machine. Also, there will be machines to the left and the right of the DC - how does one plumb that?.
Come out of the DC and then install a Y and from that set up two trunk lines - one to the left and one to the right. Add arms connected to the trunk lines by Y's and 45º connections.

This was the state of my ducting just after setting up the start of the two trunk lines in my shed.
The DC is in an enclosure outside the doc (see "Enc")
At "1" there is a "Y" that splits into two trunks - one goes to the right, the other goes to the left.
There are two blast gates on each trunk arm just after the Y. These direct the flow to required gates.


PanoDC.jpg

How powerful of a machine is necessary if I were to place it 18m away?

I would put an 18m line in a 4+HP 15" impeller category.

The hole to sucker, once the 3 to 1 port is removed looks like its going to be huge.

Most likely t will be 200 mm.

Is there any benefit going larger than 150 (but smaller then 225) if I find another type of pipe that is say, 175mm? (or not worth the effort)

You won't find any cheap PVC pipe between the 150 and 225mm sizes, in fact you will be luck to find any at all in this size range.
If you need to use a long trunk line and can find it, the size of the trunk line should match or exceed the intake throat size of the impeller.

Also, is flexi pipe less efficient than PVC/smoothed walled pipe?

ALL flexi pipe is a dog in terms of flow and if possible try to hard plumb each machine into your system using PVC.
The flexi pipe setup I show for my BS above is NOT how to do it.

Sometimes you cannot avoid using some flexy eg on an OH TS guard which needs to be easily moved otherwise try to bring the hard ducting as close as possible to the machines and use minimal flexy. BTW stiffer flexy is less lossy than super flexible stuff.

Thanks.

Also just came across this video:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A0b8aUdMPWk

he has a cyclone in front of the DC and it vents outside unfiltered! Will cyclone reduce airflow significantly?

https://www.amazon.com/Oneida-Air-Sy.../dp/B00BEXBWS6

Originally Posted by qwertyu

he has a cyclone in front of the DC and it vents outside unfiltered! Will cyclone reduce airflow significantly?

Yes it does especially on that cyclone as it simply won't be very efficient.
BPs cyclone is designed to be as efficient as it can be AND it uses a 15" impeller with a 4HP motor so that he can afford to lose some grunt in the process.

You could eliminate pipe and fittings from the ceiling to the ground with that kind of DC by turning it over. Basically making a frame to suspend it through the removed casters, either free standing or bolted into the enclosure structure. You take off both bag rings and bolt them back on so they remain as they were orientated before. With the inlet at ceiling level your ductwork can flow straight in.

I think you could also remove the front intake plate from the impeller and make a bell mouth entry for the 150mm pipe if it isn't already a 150mm entry. Bob has done it with a 2hp in his Generic 2hp thread sticky at the start of the thread page. I had a similar machine before and it had three four inch pipes into a six at the impeller.

Both the above will give a slight improvement at the expense of some extra work.

What shop machines are you using or planning to get? A lunchbox thicknesser can be served with your machine but a 24" planer will overwhelm it. Maybe rearranging the machines to allow the heavy chip and dust producers to be closest to the DC is in order.

Pete

Originally Posted by BobL

Yes it does especially on that cyclone as it simply won't be very efficient.
BPs cyclone is designed to be as efficient as it can be AND it uses a 15" impeller with a 4HP motor so that he can afford to lose some grunt in the process.

I see. What is BP?

Thanks QCinspector - will look into turning it over. Where would the filter and bags go?

In term of machines, the plan is:
20" thicknesser
jointer (unsure which - looking at 8, 12 and 16" models)
band saw (unsure which at this stage)
bosch gcm 12 gdl mitre saw
saw stop 250mm table saw
supermax 25-50 drum sander
router table (unsure which at this stage)

Furthest away from the machine will prob be the drum sander - maybe 8m away
closest will prob be the band saw and thicknesser and where i plan to put the jointer

BP is shorthand for Bill Pentz. He did a lot of research into dust collection when he got very sick while using an Asian import bagged dust collector like the one you have. He has a website with all his findings including how to make his cyclone. It is a long read but persevere. Dust Collection Research - Home His cyclone design is licenced by Clear-Vue Cyclones and their site in Australia is. Clearvueoz.com.au | Dust Extraction & Collection | Woodwork | Air quality

The filter and bags would sit exactly as they are now. The motor, impeller and the square branch duct to the collector rings connects in the same places only coming down instead of up.

Nice toys. I have a SawStop and a 24/48 drum sander. You might consider having it on wheels and roll it closer to the DC as they produce a lot of fine dust and you want the most suction you can get in order to get the sub-micron dust. You'll want to open the ports to allow a 150mm pipe to it without any reduction. It is on my to do list.

Pete

Originally Posted by qwertyu

Furthest away from the machine will prob be the drum sander - maybe 8m away

Of those machines the drum sander should be the closest.

I was speaking to a sales rep at a machinery shop - the sales guy was telling me to avoid pleated filters if it's connected to a planer/thicknesser as the shavings are big and it gets stuck in the pleats. Is this an issue?

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Originally Posted by qwertyu

I was speaking to a sales rep at a machinery shop - the sales guy was telling me to avoid pleated filters if it's connected to a planer/thicknesser as the shavings are big and it gets stuck in the pleats. Is this an issue?

I've heard of this before but never seen it happen in practice.