Thread: Extraction System Men Shed

Originally Posted by blackhorse16a

Yeah, we're colder than you today 10º F now, 2 this morning.

I might try Bob's thing if I can get a log. Thanks, though.

If you can't get a log you can glue pieces of ply or MDF together to make up the necessary thickness.

Bobl - I downloaded a sound metre. Not as accurate as precision piece of equipment, still did provide reading I can work with.

I took 5 main readings

1. Inside the dust enclosure (DE) next to motor - DE is situated outside the workshop and is separated by a block wall.
2. Outside the DE enclosure approx. 3 M from motor, just beside the entry double doors to the workshop.
3. Just inside the workshop via our double doors (doors closed) - double doors are just standard exterior doors.
4. Approximately 6 - 8 metres away mid workshop.
5. Rear wall 11 and 15 metres away.

1 - 96 DB
2 - 85.5 DB
3 - 85 DB
4 - 83 - 82 DB
5 - 81.3 - 80 DB

The noise, I did expect it to be louder than this. The noise level in the workshop is being transmitted via the ducting, again no surprise there. Mind you when the tools are fired up this will be interesting.

How we manage to work when the DE is operating is something we will just have to workout, not that it will be running the DE all the time.

Anyway still have 10 tools to connect up so a bit of work ahead of us.

Originally Posted by Brian45

Bobl - I downloaded a sound metre. Not as accurate as precision piece of equipment, still did provide reading I can work with.

I took 5 main readings

1. Inside the dust enclosure (DE) next to motor - DE is situated outside the workshop and is separated by a block wall.
2. Outside the DE enclosure approx. 3 M from motor, just beside the entry double doors to the workshop.
3. Just inside the workshop via our double doors (doors closed) - double doors are just standard exterior doors.
4. Approximately 6 - 8 metres away mid workshop.
5. Rear wall 11 and 15 metres away.

1 - 96 DB
2 - 85.5 DB
3 - 85 DB
4 - 83 - 82 DB
5 - 81.3 - 80 DB

The noise, I did expect it to be louder than this. The noise level in the workshop is being transmitted via the ducting, again no surprise there. Mind you when the tools are fired up this will be interesting.

How we manage to work when the DE is operating is something we will just have to workout, not that it will be running the DE all the time.

Anyway still have 10 tools to connect up so a bit of work ahead of us.

Most noise meters apps will allow you to choose between a couple of "weightings" I assume the weighting was "dBA" (averaged) weighting. If it does not have a choice is is usually dBA.

Anyway, if it is dBA your readings are about what I would expect - remember a humans "perception" of noise is not a good guide as it is heavily influenced by an individuals hearing response to different frequencies.

If you wanted to reduce the noise escaping the enclosure you will need to add a layer of some heavy/dense cladding (eg thick MDF or ply) and some lightweight cladding (eg carpet, foam rubber acoustic bats) .

It was DBA - and I agree with the noise guide in regard to frequencies. I am effected by certain pitches of noise. I'm pleased to say the level in the workshop is fine by me, I just would not like to stay in there for long periods if the DE was on.

As I want to cut and a heap of ply up for my workshop cupboards, I will do this on the days no one is there and I can just use ear muffs and will not bother anyone.

I take your point re the MDF etc, I will see what the members say after its be operating, if it bother them we will look at MDF and carpet to help reduse the noise.

Originally Posted by Brian45

It was DBA - and I agree with the noise guide in regard to frequencies. I am effected by certain pitches of noise. I'm pleased to say the level in the workshop is fine by me, I just would not like to stay in there for long periods if the DE was on.

As I want to cut and a heap of ply up for my workshop cupboards, I will do this on the days no one is there and I can just use ear muffs and will not bother anyone.

I take your point re the MDF etc, I will see what the members say after its be operating, if it bother them we will look at MDF and carpet to help reduse the noise.

As usual it will be a law of diminishing returns What's the current cladding ?

The cladding between the DE enclosure and the woodwork area is a 200 mm Besser block wall with a 100 mm brick exterior. The rest of the woodwork area is Besser block.

I maybe wrong, I feel the primary cause of the noise is via the ducting system and to reduce this all the ducting would need to be wrapped up, not an option. I wonder if there would have been a difference if metal ducting was used. of course we will never know .

Originally Posted by Brian45

The cladding between the DE enclosure and the woodwork area is a 200 mm Besser block wall with a 100 mm brick exterior.

How well sealed is the enclosure? Apart from the air exit path which should be muffled or baffled, the enclosure needs to airtight otherwise the noise is just going to rattle around inside until it finds a gap.

Originally Posted by BobL

Most noise meters apps will allow you to choose between a couple of "weightings" I assume the weighting was "dBA" (averaged) weighting. If it does not have a choice is is usually dBA.

Anyway, if it is dBA your readings are about what I would expect - remember a humans "perception" of noise is not a good guide as it is heavily influenced by an individuals hearing response to different frequencies.

If you wanted to reduce the noise escaping the enclosure you will need to add a layer of some heavy/dense cladding (eg thick MDF or ply) and some lightweight cladding (eg carpet, foam rubber acoustic bats) .

Use proper acostic batts, end of story. It might be interesting to try Dynamat as well but the stuff is not cheap.

Air tight it is not,

Dusty Enclosure 1.jpg The entry to the DE enclosure. The red is the entry to the woodwork area, and are standard exterior doors.
Dusty penertration.jpg

The only direct entry point into the shed is via this hole in the wall. We had planned to place a face board fixed to the blocks and fill the hole from the DE side.

Well, at least we know the system works, had to pull a bag out yesterday. One of the members repairs push bikes and his foam / rubber handles rolled to close to an inlet and next thing they in a bag in the DE room.

Originally Posted by Brian45

Air tight it is not,

In that case any form of acoustic insulation is going to largely be a waste of time - it has to be as air tight as you can make it save for an escape route for th air which should be muffled or baffled - same thing really.

Looks like sealing the DE room will be a project down the line.

Managed to hook up our thinknesser yesterday and it worked a absolute treat. The machine still has its 125 mm outlet in place, Any modification to 150 mm will have to wait, I'm as keen as everyone to get the machines up and running ASAP. At the moment I rigged the 150 mm pipe direct to the machine.

Fits very neat and I will tec screw and tape the joints.

IMG_5102.jpg The outlet 125 mm Removed the flex. DE Thick.jpg 150 mm pipe attached. DE Thick1.jpg I just scribed a piece of 16 mm board to the 125 outlet, placed a 150 mm flange over the cut out, short piece of pipe and a couple of bends and jobs is done.

We are getting there slowly, sliding panel saw next

Originally Posted by BobL

If you can't get a log you can glue pieces of ply or MDF together to make up the necessary thickness.

Got my log but it’s not dry and starting to crack, so I waxed it and will leave it for a while.

Hi,

Looking to connect our sliding table saw (STW) to the Dust Extraction (DE) and I have a question. The STW has two ports one at the bottom one from the guard riser (GR) top.

The bottom port is 100 mm while I'm sure I could enlarge this port to 150 mm it will have to be a modification at a later stage. My question is the top port. I figure I have two options

1. To attach flexible pipe to the end of the chrome pipe (EASIEST).
2. Attach flex pipe to the GR and omit the use of the chrome pipe for DE use.

SS DE 1.jpg Currently there is a flex pipe to the chrome pipe. SS DE.jpg This is showing the end of the chrome pipe. As you can see the flex is attached to the chrome pipe from the GR.

The GR port is only around 60 - 65 mm. To modify this will take a bit of messing about and it has a ram next to the outlet, you maybe able see the top of the ram showing just above the flex pipe.

Any thoughts on the best approach. At this stage I'm leaning towards attaching direct to the GR with flex pipe.

Brian - short of a complete rebuild you will never get much air through that guard.
With that small hose (a 65 mm hose of a DC will pull ~100 CFM ) the hard 90º connection of the flex to the guard its far from optimized.

Manufacturers build these things to collect maximum visible dust because that is what the customers see but it just won't collect as much fine dust as it could.
That is also why they they concentrate on collecting the chips that the blade flings off.

The max air flow (ie max fine dust) situation would be to mount 4" flex direct to the front of the transparent part of the guard - BUT that will obstruct viewing the workpiece and blade.
SS-DE.jpg

I'd post a link to what I reckon works but I know it will create A LOT more work.

If you don't want to modify anything then instead of using a DC hose to that guard I would use a big shop vac as it should pull more air maybe 30%? more air through that setup than a DC.
This will also leave more suck available to the cabinet as well.
Trouble is then you have to deal with added cost, remembering to turn it on and vac problems like leaks etc
Lappa has done this on his TS with a <$100 domestic vac and says it works.