Thread: Improving the dust extraction from my Hammer K3 TS

12mm depth provides adequate clearance for the carriage.

And 1.6mm thickness should work. I would not be able to fix a 3mm angle - too wide.

I'll have a go on the weekend and report back.

Originally Posted by scottbr

Geez. I can imagine a fire like that is something that could smoulder for a while before making its presence known.

Good to know the chunky bits won't hurt the impeller, though I might try and catch them before anyway - they would puncture a bag for sure.

I'll mostly finish my new dust line tomorrow and will take some photos on the weekend. You'll be pleased to see, Bob, that I'll have 150mm PVC going into the back of the saw cabinet.

Hey Scott so are you going 150 internally to cabinet through to the saw blade housing or just to the cabinet where it changes to 120mm standard hammer piping?

Apologies if you already said and I’ve missed it

Cheers
Nathan

Originally Posted by delbs

Hey Scott so are you going 150 internally to cabinet through to the saw blade housing or just to the cabinet where it changes to 120mm standard hammer piping?

Apologies if you already said and I’ve missed it

Cheers
Nathan

Hey Nathan. I've been pondering the best way to deal with the cabinet. So far, what I did has worked well.
1. The 150mm PVC travels 100mm into the cabinet.
2. Attached to it is some 150mm flex.
3. I take that up to the blade housing and hang it loosely off it - 'loosely' so I can still crank the blade over to 45 degrees.
4. The 100mm flex that came with the saw travels inside the 150mm.

Why did I keep the original 100mm? Because it would have been hard to disconnect and even harder to reconnect if the 150mm didn't work.

I don't know if having the 150mm encasing the 100mm helps, but I am getting very little dust escaping from the saw so I'm pretty pleased with the outcome.


Saw1.jpgSaw2.jpg

I built a new ZCI for the K3 today. The reason for this was to improve two aspects of the old design.

The Mk1 solution was to narrow the gap between blade and wagon with a section of aluminium ...







The reason for the aluminium was that the thin sliver of insert closest to the wagon, as seen below, vibrated and then exploded when it touched the spinning blade!




The aluminium on the Mk 1 did improve on the original insert by closing up the side closest to the wagon, and prevented almost all but the thinnest offcuts dropping through the gap. However, the design retained the bevel for a mitre cut - which rendered that side of the blade decidedly non-ZCI!



The new Mk 2 ZCI is also made from a Hammer blank for a dado blade, and uses 3mm aluminium to close off the wagon side, but the aluminium is now a L-section. The reason for this shape is two-fold: it is stiffer and will not vibrate, and it will prevent any very fine slivers falling through.





Importantly, the rip fence side of the blade is now sealed ...





Regards from Perth

Derek

Originally Posted by scottbr

Hey Nathan. I've been pondering the best way to deal with the cabinet. So far, what I did has worked well.
1. The 150mm PVC travels 100mm into the cabinet.
2. Attached to it is some 150mm flex.
3. I take that up to the blade housing and hang it loosely off it - 'loosely' so I can still crank the blade over to 45 degrees.
4. The 100mm flex that came with the saw travels inside the 150mm.

Why did I keep the original 100mm? Because it would have been hard to disconnect and even harder to reconnect if the 150mm didn't work.

I don't know if having the 150mm encasing the 100mm helps, but I am getting very little dust escaping from the saw so I'm pretty pleased with the outcome.


Saw1.jpgSaw2.jpg

I don't understand this. Is the 100mm flex just an end floating loosely in the 150mm? I could understand if the 100mm flex is still plumbed in and you get an auxilliary suction from the surrounding 150mm, but I can't see how you maintain good flow through the 100mm if it's not connected. You could also try a 150-100 reducer somewhere closer to the guard - you will have to cut the 100, but it's really not that hard to replace if you take the gaurd out to squash it on and use a heat gun for the plastic reinforced stuff.

I would try removing the 100mm flex. I'm guessing it won't make and difference to chip collection but should increase invisible dust collection inside the cabinet - provided there are sufficient gaps for air to enter as the blade slot (especially a zero slot) alone is very restrictive to air flow.

In addition Table saw blades act like mini impellers and drag fine dust from inside the cabinet out through the slot and this air/dust expands when exiting the slot
A near zero gap throat plate will help reduce the amount of dust pulled out of the cabinet but will also reduce the amount of fine dust pulled back down into the cabinet hence the need for improved OH duct collection.

Originally Posted by BobL

I would try removing the 100mm flex. I'm guessing it won't make and difference to chip collection but should increase invisible dust collection inside the cabinet - provided there are sufficient gaps for air to enter as the blade slot (especially a zero slot) alone is very restrictive to air flow.

In addition Table saw blades act like mini impellers and drag fine dust from inside the cabinet out through the slot and this air/dust expands when exiting the slot
A near zero gap throat plate will help reduce the amount of dust pulled out of the cabinet but will also reduce the amount of fine dust pulled back down into the cabinet hence the need for improved OH duct collection.

You will certainly gain by removing the 100mm flex obstruction in the 150mm but my concern is that the air speed through the guard will not be enough to divert the high speed chips into the extraction rather than the blade flinging it out the top as happened with my situation.

Originally Posted by mic-d

I don't understand this. Is the 100mm flex just an end floating loosely in the 150mm? I could understand if the 100mm flex is still plumbed in and you get an auxilliary suction from the surrounding 150mm, but I can't see how you maintain good flow through the 100mm if it's not connected. You could also try a 150-100 reducer somewhere closer to the guard - you will have to cut the 100, but it's really not that hard to replace if you take the gaurd out to squash it on and use a heat gun for the plastic reinforced stuff.

Yep, the 100mm is just floating in the 150mm. It was a first stab and a quick one at dealing with the dust line inside the cabinet because I needed to use the saw on the weekend. I have to say it works very well. Maybe it shouldn't, but it does. I'll probably fiddle with it down the track and perhaps get that fitting made, Nathan.

And Derek, spookily, probably around the same time as you were making ZCI # 2 I was making ZCI # 1 with that bit of 12mm angle I had. Just need to do the slot for the knife. I did not like at all the part when I had to bring the blade up through the plastic blank. That sliver of plastic epoxied to the aluminium angle seems very rigid - fingers crossed. I have seen some videos of people making ZCIs out of plywood, which I may do one day. One thought is to make a plywood one and get someone to 3D print some.

I guess dealing with dust is all to do with incremental changes, and the ones I have made over the last few weeks have made a huge difference. There will be more changes and refinements I suspect.

ZCI1.jpgZCI2.jpgZCI3.jpg

Originally Posted by scottbr

...
And Derek, spookily, probably around the same time as you were making ZCI # 2 I was making ZCI # 1 with that bit of 12mm angle I had. Just need to do the slot for the knife. I did not like at all the part when I had to bring the blade up through the plastic blank. That sliver of plastic epoxied to the aluminium angle seems very rigid - fingers crossed. I have seen some videos of people making ZCIs out of plywood, which I may do one day. One thought is to make a plywood one and get someone to 3D print some.

Scott, it looks a good fit so far. I am curious how you plan to make the slot for the riving knife?

Regards from Perth

Derek

Originally Posted by derekcohen

Scott, it looks a good fit so far. I am curious how you plan to make the slot for the riving knife?

Regards from Perth

Derek

Me too.

4 inch grinder with a stone cutting blade on it did the trick, Derek. I used that blade because it's about 3mm wide and because it was already on the grinder. I suspect any blade on a grinder would work with the plastic.

It was the least onerous part of the whole dust upgrade operation.

Have watched a method of once you have a plate that fits with the rounded corners you remove the riving knife and bring the blade up once then flip the insert from back to front so the rounded edges still fit and raise the blade again and this extends the cut to cater to both the blade and riving knife

Ramon on YouTube who sells the k3 insert I think I saw that originally

Sorry, I haven't read the whole thread. On my Luna TS I split the 125mm flexi duct from my DE into two 100mm flexis with a Y reducer. One 100m flexi goes to the original blade shroud dust port and the other has a "Big Gulp" style pvc collector which is jerry-rigged under the blade shroud. The Y piece is outside the cabinets as there's very little room inside the TS cabinet since the spindle moulder is in there too.

This setup doesn't catch all the dust, but is a definite improvement. My overhead blade guard connects to my Festool DE. That catches a lot of fine dust.

Originally Posted by delbs

Have watched a method of once you have a plate that fits with the rounded corners you remove the riving knife and bring the blade up once then flip the insert from back to front so the rounded edges still fit and raise the blade again and this extends the cut to cater to both the blade and riving knife.

That's how I make mine.