Thread: Moving the DC outside

In this thread below, I was also contemplating having the motor/impellor inside and the filter unit outside the main shed.

Separating motor and impellor from the filter unit

Alot of my questions were answered by knowledgable formites so it's worth a read.

In the end, I mounted the whole unit outside because I bought a shed only slightly bigger than the whole dusty assembly (1500x800x1900 - actually 2000mm) and was cheaper than building even a shelter for the filter alone. You can also see decibel readings I took as I had concerns re my neighbours. In the end, it was the best option for me with the minimal amount of stuffing around.

Installing my Dusty - WIP

Originally Posted by Ian Dobson

I have a very small rear yard behind the garage and am quite close to neighbours. Ideally I would get the DC outside, there is room to mount it protected under the eaves at the back of the garage but I am worried about noise affecting the neighbour and don't have room to build a full enclosure for the DC.

A basic enclosure would only be ~250 mm wider, and ~125 mm deeper than the DC footprint.

What I was thinking of is to leave the motor and impeller inside at the back of the garage, and run ducting to the bag/filter unit which would be mounted outside. My garage is brick but I can remove a small window pane of glass and replace with acrylic with a hole cut for the ducting. The ducting between the impeller and bag parts is currently 5" flex hose. I could do the DC mod on the input to the impeller (although don't see how it would be much use going beyond 5" on the input if constrained to that on the output side).

correct

The other option is to do the full Generic DC mod and directly couple the impeller and collector sections with 6" input ducting, but then the bag/filter section would have to stay in the garage.

This is the one I would go for especially a full conversion to 6" between the impeller/filter can be done with 6" PVC enabling the impeller/filter to be separated from each other.

At present I only have the DC for a table saw and my router table fence. These are connected through a 3m flex hose which I move between the machines as necessary. I might add a thickness planer in future. If I can get the DC permanently mounted then I would consider rigid ducting.

Rigid ducting is superior from an air flow point of view especially if you are using 3m of flex. Try to keep and flex as short as possible although its not always possible.

I've been re-thinking through the options and now I'm considering putting the whole DC outside and directly coupling the impeller and collector sections as per the generic 2HP mod thread.


After measuring, there will be room to put a 1.5m x 0.75m colorbond shed in the space although it will be up against the neighbour's fence on one side so I will need to consider some acoustic deadening.
I was thinking of lining the inside of the shed walls with 18mm MDF, would that help with sound reduction? I won't have a lot of spare room for thicker lining or insulation material.


Also I don't want to cut a 150mm hole through the workshop (garage) brick work so I have two options to bring the ducting through from the DC shed. One is to go up through the eave soffit, into the roof cavity and then down into the workshop. This would allow me to have permanent overhead ducting in the workshop to the TS.


The other option is to remove a 450x450 window pane and replace with a ply or acrylic sheet with a hole cut for the ducting. This would be near ground level, would be a constant trip hazard and lose me some natural lighting. But it would be significantly shorter in length.


Does a 2HP (modified) dusty have enough power to cope with the additional length of the overhead option? (I figure an extra 3-4 metres of PVC 150mm ducting, mostly vertical, with some extra bends to go up and back down.)


Also with PVC ducting, do people usually use stormwater pipe or is DWV preferred?


Thanks heaps for your assistance.
Ian

I made my DC into a cyclone system mounted outside and then piped it in. I am in the process of installing a larger system but this one is still working pretty well

Figure 10.jpg Figure 12.jpg

Nice Neil. What unit did you use for the motor and impellor on top and did you make the cyclone yourself?

Originally Posted by Lappa

Nice Neil. What unit did you use for the motor and impellor on top and did you make the cyclone yourself?

I used my old 1HP unit and modified the intake to improve the suction. Yes I built the cyclone myself, I did a thread on it way back then, but probably gone now in the big clean up a few years back. It is still on my old web page from 2005, that I no longer keep and pay for so will probably disappear soon, but still there today http://www.dai-sensei.com/index.php?user1=neil. See under dust collection

Ian, if you look at my build, I came in at the bottom then up the inside wall to the roof. Yours would be no different except your vertical would be on the outside wall.
I used DWV because the bends have a better radius but the DWV pipe I used is lined and weighs more than stormwater pipe. Not sure if all DWV pipe is lined? My DWV is approx 151mm ID while the stormwater is approx 153.5mm


IMG_0369.jpg DWV pipe at the bottom


IMG_0372.jpg Smooth stormwater interior
IMG_0371.jpg Rougher DWV interior


If I did it again, I would use stormwater pipe but DWV connections, especially the bends. Funnily enough, the DWV straight connectors were cheaper than the stormwater at my supplier but it's best to check with yours.
However, if you were to use any sheet metal fittings (I used a 150mm to 125mm tapered adaptor and a 150mm flange ) they are almost dead on 150mm so they are loose in stormwater pipe but a reasonable fit in DWV pipe.

Originally Posted by Lappa

If I did it again, I would use stormwater pipe but DWV connections, especially the bends. Funnily enough, the DWV straight connectors were cheaper than the stormwater at my supplier but it's best to check with yours..

Price depends very much upon how many they buy in bulk at the time.

The main DWV fittings I purposely buy are the 90 and 45 bends because they are available with greater radii - everything else I try to get as stormwater.
I use a lot of treaded inspection couplings and caps and as these are not available in 100 mm stormwater I buy these as DWV.

Originally Posted by BobL

Price depends very much upon how many they buy in bulk at the time.

.

That is obvious to all. I was comparing a buy of 1 vs 1 Bob

Thanks BobL and Lappa.

I've started my build with a slab pour for the DC shed. Looking forward to some clean air woodworking in the near future. I'll post some photos on progress as I go.

Ian

Resurrecting my old thread. For many reasons, I haven't made much progress on my dust collection project since last Summer. But I'm finally back onto it.

After building a small shed behind my garage workshop, I put the 2hp dusty in there and checked the noise level from the adjacent fence line. I don't have a fancy meter, but I do know that my neighbour wouldn't be happy with that arrangement.

So I am reverting to my original idea to put the bag/filter end of the dusty into the shed and leave the impeller in the garage. I am assuming the majority of noise will be coming from the impeller rather than the bag/filter.

The next step is to form some 6" PVC pipe into the appropriate shapes to connect each end of the dusty. Tonight I started on the impeller end (rectangle ~155x105mm). I whipped up a simple moulding form from scrap MDF and spent some time with the hot blow gun to get the pipe end into the right shape. My intent is to create a rectangular wooden flange and epoxy it to the pipe.

Here is the progress so far, I will post updates as I go.

Originally Posted by Ian Dobson

After building a small shed behind my garage workshop, I put the 2hp dusty in there and checked the noise level from the adjacent fence line. I don't have a fancy meter, but I do know that my neighbour wouldn't be happy with that arrangement.

A fancy meter is not needed. The free sound pressure level meters available as Apps for mobile phones will give you an idea of any improvements you make. Human ears simply can't hear small changes in sound pressure so it is hard to tell if "this is better/worse than this".

What is your small shed made of? May may need to seal it properly, add some more weight to the walls and add a sound muffler/baffle to let the air out.

The next step is to form some 6" PVC pipe into the appropriate shapes to connect each end of the dusty. Tonight I started on the impeller end (rectangle ~155x105mm). I whipped up a simple moulding form from scrap MDF and spent some time with the hot blow gun to get the pipe end into the right shape. My intent is to create a rectangular wooden flange and epoxy it to the pipe.

Moulds/formers will form a better shape if they have a longer transition and quite rounded corners at the start of the transition.
Ideally the mould should starts off with a round end that fits inside the pipe and transitions to the square shape.
Unfortunately this produces a large area requiring even heating which is near impossible to do by hand evenly with a single heat gun.
This is why I place my Bell Mouth hood formers onto a lathe which improve the even-ness of heating.
Pusher3.jpg

A coupe of other tips
Try rubbing wax (paste or from a candle) or oil to the former and the inside of the pipe to help it slide onto the former.
When I tried this with MDF I found it soaks up most of the lubricant which is why I ended used hardwood as the former.
Heat the former itself up to about 100º before heating the pipe.
I realise that not everyone can access hardwood of these sizes so you have to work with what you can get but even pine will be better than MDF.

> What is your small shed made of? May may need to seal it properly, add some more weight to the walls and add a sound muffler/baffle to let the air out.

> Moulds/formers will form a better shape if they have a longer transition and quite rounded corners at the start of the transition.
> Ideally the mould should starts off with a round end that fits inside the pipe and transitions to the square shape.
> Unfortunately this produces a large area requiring even heating which is near impossible to do by hand evenly with a single heat gun.

The shed out back is a 1.5m x 0.75m Colorbond garden shed, with no rear wall (it's bolted onto the brick rear wall of the garage). What do you suggest as the best material to use for adding weight/sound deadening to the walls?

I agree using a longer mould would make a smoother transition. But in this case it's a bit more complicated than a bell mouth as the vertical dimension (as shown in photo above) is 105mm which is smaller than the pipe diameter. A form that started to fit the round pipe and ended as the rectangle shape would have to be either made in multiple parts, or destroyed to get it out of the formed pipe.

In this case to keep things simple, after getting the end into rectangular shape, I have taken the pipe off the former, and reheated it (not at the very end, but from a couple of inches down), and used an oven mitt pressing from the inside to smooth out the transitions on each corner.

Shed insulation...
The main thing to block sound transmission is mass.
Line the shed with any dense material.
Acoustic plasterboard
Fire check plaster board
Lead
Lead loaded vinyl
Solid brick


The next step is to absorb sound.
Inside the mass layer, use acoustic insulation, rock wool, etc.
I think carpet may work.

I'm not sure of the acoustic properties of Styrofoam. (just checked one product, it has some value but probably not enough)

I'm looking at this:
Speedpanel.com.au

Of course, the dc needs to exhaust its air.

Rather than just an open hole, a baffle, or series of baffles covering the hole, will let the air out keeping most of the noise in.



Russ