Thread: Planning my ductwork / DC / machine layout in new workshop

If you can put all the horizontal ducting n the roof space that's what I would do.

One possibility is to run a single diagonal trunk duct from the cyclone to the opposite corner and install Y's along the trunk line to take off to all machines.
Ar every take off install a rocker style blast gate and control these with pul down ropes

This requires more pipe but fewer gates and means only opening and closing two gates to switch machines.


Screen Shot 2017-02-05 at 3.52.47 PM.jpg


The alternative is to run 2/3 trunk ducts such as the the one shown below.
The second looks tidier but has a number of limitations in that you have to use more junctions and more gates. which have to be opened and close.
It sounds trivial but eventually opening and closing becomes become a right PITA.

This setup will also get very crowded with 6" junctions around the area of the cyclone and you don't have a lot of room to play with.
The rocker gates also don't work using ropes unless the ducting is horizontal which means more mucking around when ducting is close to walls

Screen Shot 2017-02-05 at 3.50.45 PM.jpg

In both cases the elephant in the corner is the TS in the middle of the shed.
Drop downs for for the blade guard collector are fine but not the cabinet as they get in the way of cutting sheet goods etc.
You could come down at the back of the assembly table and then go under the assembly table that's what the dotted blue line means

Thanks Bob - all good advice. The first option to me seems to be the best as to every machine, there will only be one 90, one y, then a straight line into the DC. This should give me the best CFM flow i think. If i run the horizontal above the bottom part of the trusses, then the blast gates would have to be above ceiling height as well which would make installing a horizontal ceiling quite tricky - i guess i could clad the walls with insulation and clad just under the roof with insulation leaving an open roof space? ... or i could just leave it all unclad too! What would everyone do in this situation given it is a brick and wooden frame structure with a colourbond roof? All advice welcome!!

How about the actual layout of the machines? Bearing in mind i haven't actually made the mitre station yet, but something like in the picture is what i'm going to build. Basically it is an empty canvas to work on and i want to get it as functional as i can from the start.

Bob, i like your idea of dropping the TS duct behind the assembly table - i might just drop it to the far right corner and have it travel just to the side of the table as i plan on having the assembly table on castors so i can move it easily.

Also, bearing in mind the backyard is to the left as you look at it, and there is a large brick school building (with no windows to the right), is that the best position for the DC unit do you think, or maybe in the corner closer to the roller door for ease of disposal of sawdust?

I welcome all thoughts with appreciation!

Sandy

Originally Posted by Sandy Taylor

Thanks Bob - all good advice. The first option to me seems to be the best as to every machine, there will only be one 90, one y, then a straight line into the DC.

Correct.

This should give me the best CFM flow i think. If i run the horizontal above the bottom part of the trusses, then the blast gates would have to be above ceiling height as well which would make installing a horizontal ceiling quite tricky - i guess i could clad the walls with insulation and clad just under the roof with insulation leaving an open roof space? ... or i could just leave it all unclad too! What would everyone do in this situation given it is a brick and wooden frame structure with a colourbond roof? All advice welcome!!

You could have the blast gates above the ceiling and just the control cords coming through. Do you know what I mean by control cords?

How about the actual layout of the machines? Bearing in mind i haven't actually made the mitre station yet, but something like in the picture is what i'm going to build. Basically it is an empty canvas to work on and i want to get it as functional as i can from the start.

Bob, i like your idea of dropping the TS duct behind the assembly table - i might just drop it to the far right corner and have it travel just to the side of the table as i plan on having the assembly table on castors so i can move it easily.

Maybe consider swapping the positions of the TS and assembly table?

I have under floor connection to my TS and router, one of the best things I ever did building my shed. have you poured the slab yet?

Also, bearing in mind the backyard is to the left as you look at it, and there is a large brick school building (with no windows to the right), is that the best position for the DC unit do you think, or maybe in the corner closer to the roller door for ease of disposal of sawdust?

If it was me I would get the cyclone outside, shed space is too valuable to be wasted on housing the dust collector.

One other thing I forgot to add is add some spare Y's into the trunk (at least one on each side) because it means you can add or move things around.

One thing you will lose is a lot of wall space. For small machines like the BS and the DP they could share a drop down and have a blast gates or a simple swap over piece of flexy.

This is how I have terminated all the flexies in the mens shed system,
It means they can be easily pulled off the machine and easily moved to another machine (no phasing about trying to stretch flexy over ducting etc) or used for a vacuum like cleanup to grab those escaped chips
IMG_1922.jpg

In fact if you have space I recommend ending all hard PVC runs to a machine with a 6"-4" Y.
Cap the 4" outlet for normal operation but when you want to clean up you have a handy port that will allow you to hook up a 4" flexy ro use as a vacuum cleaner upper.

Yep, what BobL said about spare Y's. I've also found that aside from ducting to the machines my most valuable bit of dust collection has been a dust collection box I move around on my bench when working with hand tools; rasps, saws, sandpaper, planes etc. These hand process create more dust by far than my machines after they had decent dust collection installed. Just something to think about.

Sandy I notice your assembly table has lots of dog holes in it, what about boxing up the underneath ad fitting a 6" connection to it as a downdraft table?

Hi Sandy,
Such sound advice from BobL!!!

Just a couple of things to add ... ducting under the assembly table may be tricky ...I see that it is intended to be a mobile unit.

As for the ceiling ... the higher the better I have found ... my roof is insulated but its and open void to 3.6m ... so handy when making large pieces of moving long sticks around. Think about roof mounted GPO's above the assembly table ... and the TS too.

I would suggest that you consider making all the cabinets as mobile units, and try to coordinate to the height of the TS. You will appreciate this when planing long boards on you bench mounted planer, jointing or breaking down large sheet where LHS support is required. Do would plan to have a timber and panel storage space?

Sandy, see the extensions on the RHS of the TS ... those 2 metal rails jutting out ... I guarantee that you WILL crack into them, and a hard bump on the end can (ask me how I know) upset the alignment of the fence to mitre slots.

I have a similar set-up 6.5M X 6.2M workshop with roller door at one end. I share the workshop with a veteran car which gets rolled out of the way each time I get busy. A TS aligned with the RHS wall would be my dream. Not just because of a better use of space ... but also power cables.

What power switching (on/off) arrangements will you be using for the DC, please?

Regards

Rob

Originally Posted by BobL

Correct.



You could have the blast gates above the ceiling and just the control cords coming through. Do you know what I mean by control cords?

Yes, i understand - i will be able to make some blast gates on my laser cutter

Originally Posted by BobL

Maybe consider swapping the positions of the TS and assembly table?

I have under floor connection to my TS and router, one of the best things I ever did building my shed. have you poured the slab yet?

We are moving into the new house in July, so the workshop is already there, so no can do

If it was me I would get the cyclone outside, shed space is too valuable to be wasted on housing the dust collector.

Unfortunately the side wall is built on the boundary, and the back wall is a stud wall to another room in the same building (is going to be the hobby / games room) so having the DC in there would not be appropriate. The other side wall is on the backyard side, so i don't want it there. There have to be some compromises, and the fact that i don't have to share the workshop with the lawnmower makes it acceptable to have the DC inside!!

One other thing I forgot to add is add some spare Y's into the trunk (at least one on each side) because it means you can add or move things around.

One thing you will lose is a lot of wall space. For small machines like the BS and the DP they could share a drop down and have a blast gates or a simple swap over piece of flexy.

This is how I have terminated all the flexies in the mens shed system,
It means they can be easily pulled off the machine and easily moved to another machine (no phasing about trying to stretch flexy over ducting etc) or used for a vacuum like cleanup to grab those escaped chips


In fact if you have space I recommend ending all hard PVC runs to a machine with a 6"-4" Y.
Cap the 4" outlet for normal operation but when you want to clean up you have a handy port that will allow you to hook up a 4" flexy ro use as a vacuum cleaner upper.

Excellent idea! I might just do that! With the 6" and 4" ducts open when doing your "clean up" with the 4" hose, would there be plenty of flow to pick up decent chips with the CV 1800 model? Comparable to a shop vac?

Originally Posted by Tahlee

A TS aligned with the RHS wall would be my dream. Not just because of a better use of space ... but also power cables.

A 15A under floor power cable and under floor dust extraction was one of the best things I did in my shed.

Originally Posted by BobL

A 15A under floor power cable and under floor dust extraction was one of the best things I did in my shed.

Yeah but we have concrete floors over here in the East ... not just a matter of scraping a bit of sand away

If you have the headroom raise the floor and put the ducting and power under it for the saw. For machines that get used infrequently I am constructing a swing out boom which when not in use gets pushed back against the wall. I will be using a wood I beam and attaching the ducting to one face of it and hinging it from a 25 x 50 RHS with gate hinges. I pick up the beam and steel Tuesday and will post pictures when it is finished. The big advantage is no fixed drops, they are a total pain, been there and done that etc. Fletty did something similar in his shed build and I am copying what he did just using a slightly different approach as I haven't got the head height he has and cannot use the same idea as he did.

Originally Posted by Sandy Taylor

Excellent idea! I might just do that! With the 6" and 4" ducts open when doing your "clean up" with the 4" hose, would there be plenty of flow to pick up decent chips with the CV 1800 model? Comparable to a shop vac?

yes easily comparable.

I like Chrise's idea for a boom or removable arrangement for less frequently used machines.

In my shed I have a similar need for my combo planer-thicknesses that lives up against a wall and gets moved out about a metre into a walk way so it can be used.
This places it almost under a 6" duct where there is is a Y with a BG and a length of flexy that gets hooked up to the combo.
When not in use a rope attached to the flexy and looped over a hook up a the ceiling is pulled and tied off at the wall to hold the flexy up out of the way.

In a similar vein, at the mens shed we have been given a two "elephant trunks" that are galvanised pipe booms with a hood on the end that we plan to attach to the shed walls so they can be swung out above benches.

Originally Posted by BobL

In a similar vein, at the mens shed we have been given a two "elephant trunks" that are galvanised pipe booms with a hood on the end that we plan to attach to the shed walls so they can be swung out above benches.

Like the ones on welding fume extractors?

I've always thought an extraction rail like the ones used in firehalls to remove the diesel exhaust would be useful in a shop. From over a workbench to the other end of the shop over the table saw or router table, and all points in between.

Pete

Originally Posted by Chris Parks

If you have the headroom raise the floor and put the ducting and power under it for the saw. ....................................

Thanks for posting, Chris

Got a few questions about how you plan to make it all fit together:

1. Presume those I-beam joists will sit on an existing concrete floor and the ducting will run between them. If so, how will you get easy access to the ducts for maintenance, blockages, etc ?
2. The floor that sits on top of the joists will have to carry the spot loading of heavy machinery - table saw, band saw, etc. What do you plan to use - yellow tongue - and how will you fix it ?
3. Will you be able to fit the cyclone and impellor below floor level, or will you have to loop some ducting up high for the dusty ?

Fair Winds

Graeme

Originally Posted by QC Inspector

Like the ones on welding fume extractors?

I've always thought an extraction rail like the ones used in firehalls to remove the diesel exhaust would be useful in a shop. From over a workbench to the other end of the shop over the table saw or router table, and all points in between.

Yep, except they are very expensive.

The ones we have look a bit like this one (Well, . . . . . maybe not quite so fancy looking!)

coral-evolution-arm.jpg

Originally Posted by GraemeCook

Thanks for posting, Chris
Got a few questions about how you plan to make it all fit together:

1. Presume those I-beam joists will sit on an existing concrete floor and the ducting will run between them. If so, how will you get easy access to the ducts for maintenance, blockages, etc

I think Chris is using the wooden I beam for his boom and not his floor.