Thread: pleated filter

Bill Pentz the designer of the Cleavue has kindly put the whole design on his website so anyone can copy it.

hells bells those are big cyclones.
OK no offence to Mr Pentz but who has built a successful cyclone that is smaller size and ...and.... yes I hear you screaming .... but the finances will not go to one of those so what are my options please and if this has been answered before excuse me but I get overwhelmed by pages and pages of some useful help but there is also a lot of yap yap yap....

There's a reason that Bill Pentz's cyclone is of a certain physical size and why he recommends using large impellers and motors.
All cyclone implementations "reduce DC flow rates".
Let me repeat that, "reduce DC flow rates".

If the cyclone uses a 15/16" impeller and a 4HP motor it can afford to lose plenty of flow rate because there is still lots of flow rate left to suck sawdust.

However, smaller DCs with 12" impellers and 2HP motors (Like the LED 1500) already have less than optimal flow rates, so adding a cyclone to these DC just makes things worse.
After locating or venting a DC outside a shed, maximising DC flow is the next best thing that can be done for dust collection because max flow is what helps clear fine dust (the unhealthy stuff you cannot see) from the shed.

You probably won't like this, but to improve the flow rate of DCs like the LEDA go to the sticky at the top of the dust forum and look up how to modify these generic 2HP DC to improve their flow flow rate.

Pleated filters improve flow rates by about 10% and unlike adding a cyclone, for small DCs you need very bit of improvement you can get.

The other benefit of adding a Pleated filter is that they take a bit longer to clog up than conventional fllter bags. How much longer depends on what sort of sawdust is being made. If its sanding then the fine dust will clog it quicker than if its curlies from a lathe.

The reason folks add cyclones to their small DCs is so they don't have to clean their filter bags as often, which I agree is a messy job and dont want to get exposed to all that dust in the process. This sounds like a good idea except that the lower flow rates leave more fine dust behind in the shed.

dang it, strong coffee big screen and comfortable seating required plus a brain that can accept and understand even half of whats being said.. the former yes...the latter .well err ummm understanding theory stuff has never been a strong point in my life.

One could be(and is) quite disillusioned by all this info, I hear you about health, but balancing on the 69/70 year bracket and some of the stupid jobs Ive done, then last medical get A1 for healthy lungs, one does start to think is this all really worth it, all this OHASSshoit then you meet a mate after many years whose lungs are completely shagged from being a cabinet maker.

Then the $$$ involved or potentially involved

but, re the Ledacraft... open the inlet to 6" yep happy to do that. the DC can and will go outside, our nearest neighbour are .5 k away and their darling little kidsand theit trail bikes ....dont get me started.

Was looking at it and that great big throat pushing upwards into the bags... hmm I thought "what if I pulled the bugga apart built a frame and sat the motor right beside the bag inlet, so the flow didnt have that extra travel and disturbance, is that/would that help even a little. Can I put a bigger motor in but staying on single phase.

Please hear my heart here I really appreciate ALL you have commited to this forum and esp this page but is there a point of saying OK this is what Ive got...where do I stop adding $$ of investment to my hobby.

Sorry about your fried brain but that's how it is with dust control, maybe too much dust dust or something else in the past?

Originally Posted by Tonto

Was looking at it and that great big throat pushing upwards into the bags... hmm I thought "what if I pulled the bugga apart built a frame and sat the motor right beside the bag inlet, so the flow didnt have that extra travel and disturbance, is that/would that help even a little.

If you read the sticky I referred to in my previous thread about modifying generic 2HP DCs you will see that is one of the recommendations.

Can I put a bigger motor in but staying on single phase.

Bigger motor won't do squat. it will still turn the impeller at the same speed. (BRAIN FRY ALERT).
You have two choices
1) bigger impeller , but you will then need a bigger impeller housing and a bigger motor
2) Use 240V 3 phase motor under VFD control and spin it faster (FLetty, I and some others have done this) and this will make a difference.

Please hear my heart here I really appreciate ALL you have commited to this forum and esp this page but is there a point of saying OK this is what Ive got...where do I stop adding $$ of investment to my hobby.

Yep - knowing when to stop is all part of any project

Tonto,

Getting back to your original question, if you look in the online manual for the DC1500T you will see the model no shown as FM300A.

If you look on the Carbatec website under tools / dust control / filters and collection bags you will find 2 pleated filters. The one with model code FM300CF is described as : Suits FM-300 or DC-1200P or similar 2HP collectors.

Not sayin' it will fit but that's certainly what the web site info implies.

Incidentally I was looking at the DC1500T a few weeks back. The sheet metal duct to the cyclone looks much better than the flexi hose on the more expensive CT-106 but the CT-106 is rated at 1600cfm as opposed to 1300 for the DC1500T. The sales dude said that was due to the more expensive one being made in Taiwan rather than China but I still can't get a feel for how 2 units rated at 2hp with the same impellor size ccould actually have such different capacity. Maybe one has more power (despite the same rating) and spins faster.

I wonder if the rpm of the motor is stated on the plate. Might be interesting to go back and look.

What is your impression of the unit so far - does it seem to be doing the job?

Originally Posted by labr@

Incidentally I was looking at the DC1500T a few weeks back. The sheet metal duct to the cyclone looks much better than the flexi hose on the more expensive CT-106 but the CT-106 is rated at 1600cfm as opposed to 1300 for the DC1500T. The sales dude said that was due to the more expensive one being made in Taiwan rather than China but I still can't get a feel for how 2 units rated at 2hp with the same impellor size ccould actually have such different capacity. Maybe one has more power (despite the same rating) and spins faster.

The manufacturer quoted data for air flows by DCs should be taken with large grains of salt. None of the DCs I have measured come close to their claimed flows. This is partially because the measurements are done using a Standard that fails to take into account that air flow close to the sides of ducting is far slower than in the middle of the duct. Then the flow rates are usually just for a naked impeller. When filter bags, cyclones etc are incorporated into a DC this slows dow the flow. In most cases the manufacturers claim can be halved and you will be closer to the actual flow.

Then if only 4" ducting is used to hook up to machinery the 4" ducting is often the rate limiting step.
Further more if the machine itself is choked and/or uses small dust ports this will further stymie the final air flow.

As an example the standard 2HP DCs are typically rated by manufacturers as 1200CFM but the actual flow through the DC with the 2x4" adapter on the from of the DC removed is about 600 CFM. Through one of the 4" ducts it's about 300CFM and when finally hooked up to a machine it might be as low as 200 CFM. This was why I spent such a lot of time playing around with the 2HP machine to see if it could be modified to improve its performance. The "Generic 2HP" sticky at the top of these forums shows what is possible if the front of the impeller is bored out to use 6" ducting and the impeller moved closer to the filter bag housing. Even so the final ~900 CFM obtained is far from the 12000 CFM claimed by the manufacturers,

Impeller flow is not just determined by impeller size but the shape and size of the vanes. eg the taller the vanes the more air it can move. The shape and tightness of fit of the housing also plays a role.

Bobl & labr, thanks for this. havent tried it out yet, we are planning a major shift and move around, 95% of wifes arty crap will move into 40' container we have access to, and that will allow 2 full bays of huge shed for Wood stuff, including her arbortec and carving gear so until that happens its plan, think, dream, kick wild cats etc etc.

Bob I have an opportunity to get a VERY cheap CT-106... hmm should I grab it (without 'her' knowing) and see if its worth swapping the vanes around to see if it does improve or am I just wasting my time. With the DC1500T I WILL be lifting the motor up to bolt onto the dust bag holder, enlarging the throats (as you described) and adding pleated folder. Also thinking....(smoke appearing from strange places) that instead of the plastic bag on the bottom fitting a shroud of some sort and a wheelie bun so the dust and chips etc can easily be carted to garden or compost bins.... again stupid idea?

Originally Posted by Tonto

Bob I have an opportunity to get a VERY cheap CT-106... hmm should I grab it (without 'her' knowing) and see if its worth swapping the vanes around to see if it does improve or am I just wasting my time.

Messing around with an impeller (especially the vanes) can be a bit like Russian Roulette. You need to bear in minds that 10kg of steel whirling around at 2800 rpm has about the same kinetic energy as that impeller moving at 75 km/hr. Another comparison is that it would be like having a brick fall on you from a height of ~450 ft ie DEATH!

If the impeller is not professionally rebalanced after it has been messed with in any way then there is a risk that it (or parts of it) make come off the motor and make a mess of you, your shed, your neighbours fence and cat. The effect can be very dramatic, eg there have been reports of impellers coming off and bursting their way through the impeller housing, the shed wall, a fence and then into the neighbours yard.

Anyone messing with an unbalanced impeller should consider doing what a mens shed here in WA did and that was to enclose the impeller housing with 8mm thick steel plate. Actually the mens shed di perform a DIY balancing but who knows how well it was done.

Even just swapping motors on a DC can lead to problems.

With the DC1500T I WILL be lifting the motor up to bolt onto the dust bag holder, enlarging the throats (as you described) and adding pleated folder. Also thinking....(smoke appearing from strange places) that instead of the plastic bag on the bottom fitting a shroud of some sort and a wheelie bun so the dust and chips etc can easily be carted to garden or compost bins.... again stupid idea?

If you decide to do change the collection receptacle then shoot for a round one. The round receptacle of these DCs does result in a small amount of cyclonic action inside the receptacle and filter bags, If a rectangular shape is used this cyclonic action is disrupted and it won't be quite as efficielnt. If you want to make an improvement consider fitting a Wok like inset inside the filter bag housing. I have never done it but reports are that it does increase the time that it takes for filters to get clogged. Do a search for "Wok" inside

make come off the motor and make a mess of you, your shed, your neighbours fence and cat. the neighbours fence is about 400m away.. the cat? well could sleep easy knowing hes gone

thanks again Bob you are an inspiration and suck knowledge freely given is something we should not forget.

Originally Posted by Tonto

. . . the neighbours fence is about 400m away.. the cat? well could sleep easy knowing hes gone

Doe that mean you can hear their cat from 400m away?

no, but if he decides to visit our property again then a disintegrating impeller meeting him would change my temperament

A cat that belonged to the former next door neighbours that still lives in the neighbourhood even though the neighbours have been gone for 6 months or so. It doesn't come into our back yard because the dogs go berko and it scarpers. It does still visit our front garden every month or so. It's very shy and I rarely see it but I know it's been there by the pile of dove feathers under the birdbath. I keep meaning to set some sort of a trap but always forget.

going back to subject sort of this is my LEDA. now if all goes according to plan, I will attach the motor/blower straight to the bag intake but that would put the motor on top. Can I or how can I place the motor underneath ?