Thread: Which shop vac?

I bought one of these a couple of years ago when it was on sale. I think it cost about 170 dollars.
It's a very versatile and powerful unit and I'd recommend it highly.


EDIT
I forgot to mention that I only use this machine for cleaning up the shed. I have smaller vacs attached to my orbital sander and a mini cyclone for the drop saw.
But I have to say that whenever I use dust making machinery, I always wear a mask. Just because I can't see the dust doesn't mean it's not there. As soon as I
think all the machining is done, the doors are opened up to allow some cross through ventilation.

Originally Posted by hellofellow

Hey again all,
I was recently lurking back in the dust extraction forums as my shop vac died.
Decided to upgrade to a DC and with some valuable advice from BobL (thanks again)..bought my first dusty!

Now it's been great but I still need to vac up the big stuff after using plunge router etc and need a shop vac to attach to hand tools.

I'm going to put it straight out there I cannot afford a festool!

Let's say sub $ 300! Is the topic of shop vacs as complex as DCs? More cfm = better!?
All they really seem to advertise is their watts!
What makes a shop vac better than the rest?! Pure power? Bigger hose?!

The power is only a rough guide as it's what is done with the power (efficiency) that is important.

Two better KPIs are the
Pressure (in mm or inches of water column or Pascals [Pa])
Flow rate (CFM or L/s or m3/min)

A third KPI is Filtration in % efficiency for a given micron size.

Like DCs the flow rates are optimistic because most flows are measured using a method that is incorrect.
The flows are also usually measured with brand new filters and no hoses or attachments.
The latter is understandable because manufacturers cannot determine how users will use these machines.
Quality machines will state pressure and flow as Maximum values.


Lets look at 2 machines A FestooL CT26 HEPA and the Shop Vac Ultra from masters

	Festool	SVU	Units
Flow	0.065	0.090	m^3/s
Pressure	24000	16435	Pa
Power	1200	1800	W

The Festool has much better pressure but less flow - this is not uncommon as the two are inversely related.
A rough measure of overall performance is the Press x Volume/Power which in the case above has the Festool handsomely ahead of the SVU but then given the price difference so it should.

Pressure is important when connecting to power tools as they need pressure to get air through them.
If the power tool has its own built in fan that grabs and directs dust the this can make up for lack of pressure and then flow becomes more important.
On the hand held power tools with a built in fan (e.g. belt sander) I found I could move more air through the tool using a DC rather than a VC but it depends on the tool.
Flow is important when cleaning up as it collects air from further afield - so if all you are doing is collecting chips then this is fine
Like DCs, the flow as a function of pressure is the best KPI but manufacturers don't provide this.

The other important thing is the filtration efficiency.
The Festool has an True HEPA filter, 99.95% efficiency at 0.03 microns (BTW I think that 0.03 should be 0.3)
Many vacuum cleaners claim they have a HEPA filter but beware, there are more fake HEPAs around than Gucci handbags.
Unless the manufacturer gives a MIRV rating or specification like the Festool does the HEPA could well be a piece of paper bag.

There are no filter specifications given for the SVU but similar style shop vacs I have measure have been around 95 to 98%.
The benefit of a shop vac is that if they have a dedicated outlet this can be connected direct to a DC and if that is located outside its a true 100% efficiency.


However - here's the downside.
Like DCs, ALL vacuum cleaners eventually leak, and they make dust in their own right, so locating them outside is really worth doing.
The 20 or so vacuum cleaners I have tested all leaked.
Even quality vacuum cleaners less than 6 months old were found with leaks and the older they are the more they leak
Great care is needed when changing the bags that nothing sits across the seals which should be cleaned with a rubber protector like ArmourAll. As VCs get towed around in workshops that bash into things, cases crack and buckle etc.

Whether they leak or not, within minutes of first use all workshop type VCs make fine via their motor cooling loop by mincing dust into finer and finer particles.
The only way to prevent this is to use the VC in a super clean environment (DOH!) OR vent or locate the VC outside.

Of course I realise that for mobile circumstances external location is not possible but sometimes adding a fat hose to the vent and and hanging this outside a door window often is.
If you are working deep inside a building then maximum filtration and a face mask is all you can usually do.

VCs can run quite long hoses in their own right and if you need longer use a bigger hose or duct with 50 or even 75 mm PVC ducting to a couple of points around your workshop.
If I were doing it I would buy the beefiest VC I could afford and put it outside.

I hope this has given you some ideas that you can use

I use a 1800W Shop Vac, and I thiink mine is 30L. it has a blower function also but I never use it. It is very similar to this one
https://www.masters.com.au/product/1...ry-vacuum-grey

Masters stopped selling the one I have because I bought one, fried the motor in the first couple of months and had it swapped over by them. The 2nd one is working without issue for about a year now.

As Bob says, these things mince the dust into an ultra fine mist. You can't see the dust. You can taste the dust in your mouth, and you can smell the dust. I end up with a very dry mouth after a long session of sanding with the random orbital.

In what is probably a useless attempt at reducing the amount of fine dust being pumped into my workshop I plan to do the following.

Although I realise I lose efficiency of the shop vac by doing this, I am going to connect the shop vac to a cyclone thing I had shipped out of china
High Efficient Cyclone Dust Collector Powder Chip Separator Filter Vacuum IM | eBay
It is cheap enough for a 'try and see' test, and it only took about 8 days to get here which is pretty damn good.

Then I will swap out the standard paper vacuum bag inside the shop vac with a finer bag
https://www.masters.com.au/product/9...-20-30l-2-pack
My current paper bags are so damn expensive that I usually empty them out and re-use about a dozen times, which I am quite sure just makes the issue way way way worse

The hope is that the cyclone will be able to separate the bigger heavier chips from the airstream before they get to the shop vac, reducing the need to change/empty the bags as often. But also I hope that the cyclone removes much of the finer dust so that far less gets to the shop vac. what does get through hopefully will be filtered a little bit better by the fine vac bag as compared to the standard one I have been using.

The only thing I need to do is get a length of 50mm flexi so i can connect the cyclone to the shop vac, I'll do this next time I am at Timbecon which should be next week sometime.

Thanks for the input guys!
Again BobL thank you for your very comprehensive answer.
Only two questions -- you mentioned the rough measure of overall performance pressure X Vol/ power.
In this equation is volume the volume of the VC ie 60 L or is volume that of the flow volume ie in the festool 0.065.
I.e. 24000x0.065/1200?

Which VC do you Think you would get for the $300 or under price tag?

Having a look around it does seem to be hard to get a vac with a genuine HEPA filter in my price range, although some come HEPA approved just not supplied with the filter. The masters one has the option to buy HEPA dust bags although I realise this is not going to prove much good unless the filter itself stops those fine particles!


Thanks for all of your time. I'd love to have the money to buy a festool!! Maybe in a few years hey!!

Cheers

Originally Posted by hellofellow

Thanks for the input guys!
Again BobL thank you for your very comprehensive answer.
Only two questions -- you mentioned the rough measure of overall performance pressure X Vol/ power.
In this equation is volume the volume of the VC ie 60 L or is volume that of the flow volume ie in the festool 0.065.
I.e. 24000x0.065/1200?

flow rate Vol/time

Which VC do you Think you would get for the $300 or under price tag?

I don't really keep up with the latest in VCs so I couldn't say which one ins the best.
Besides I would only ever buy one that was doing to be put outside

Having a look around it does seem to be hard to get a vac with a genuine HEPA filter in my price range, although some come HEPA approved just not supplied with the filter. The masters one has the option to buy HEPA dust bags although I realise this is not going to prove much good unless the filter itself stops those fine particles!

Yes unfortunately you will not be able to get a genuine HEPA for that sort of budget.

I have one of these it is a great machine but way over your budget

Originally Posted by hellofellow

Thanks for the input guys!

Which VC do you Think you would get for the $300 or under price tag?

Having a look around it does seem to be hard to get a vac with a genuine HEPA filter in my price range, although some come HEPA approved just not supplied with the filter. The masters one has the option to buy HEPA dust bags although I realise this is not going to prove much good unless the filter itself stops those fine particles!

Hi Andrew

Masters in Australia pretty much carries the same stock items as Lowes in Canada and the US.

I recently looked at, but didn't purchase a Shop-vac from Lowes, mostly because the vac hose was an extra. Here a Shop-vac is supplied with a small diameter hose -- for some BS reason related to "women" preferring to pull around the smaller diameter hose. In practice if you intend to use the SV in the shed you will need to buy a standard 50mm hose and attachments as an extra to the basic vac unit, adding to the cost.
Something for you to check.

I went with Rigid shop vac from Home Depot -- the original BORG. It's an OK unit for the price (less than AUD $200) -- a bit noisy, but the unit I purchased is not as bad noise wise as some of the other Rigid models.
With the Rigid, a HEPA filter is a CAD $50 extra, and if you purchase one you really need to cover the filter with a stocking to protect it from debris impact. I suspect a HEPA dust bag is only "HEPA" until the first small stone or nail enters the bag.


Something to be aware of
along with the price tag, Festools are also anti-static. You don't fully appreciate the difference till the outside of your vac hose and floor tools are covered in dust

I killed one and bought another, forget the brand but maybe 60l(?). CFM is OK if you see everything going in.
The real issue is probably the little stuff that goes right through the bag and out into the shop again.
Eventually, I learned that there are 3 kinds of bags that I can buy here, coarse, medium and "plaster fines."
Bandsaw, miter saw, drill press and scroll saw.
I've been using the PF bags for wood pellet stove clean outs, carving abalone shell for carvings and so on.
Maybe max run times are 10-15 minutes. In the last 18 months, seems to leave the shop cleaner than is was.
But, I'm a lot more mindful to hook it up than I used to be ("Oh hell, it's just one cut.")
My exposure isn't day in and day out.