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23rd December 2020, 12:51 PM #1
The Tale of the Twenty Dollar Cyclone (not yet a saga, but we're working on it.)
A year or five or even more ago, I bought a (very) cheap cyclone. It cost a little less than $20.00 delivered, and if the internet was to be believed I looked forward to never having to clean my vac filter again.
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In the middle of a major house renovation at the time, I couldn't wait to empty a drum of paint to use as a collector, so raced out and bought a cheap plastic rubbish bin. To cut a long story short, it sucked the bin into a package so small that any dead rodent that may have been sucked up in my first frenetic cleanup is probably still cryo-vac preserved albeit in a much flatter version of its former self.
So the bin went into a bigger bin, the cyclone got tossed under a bench somewhere, and lay dormant until a few days ago, when all the smoke left my old Jet Vac, and I was left with a perfect metal bin to use as a springboard into the world of cyclonic dust pickup.
All I can say is that all of those Youtube influencers who reckon these things are as good as the real ones are either sadly mistaken or have a very different expectation of what constitutes picking up "almost all the dust" to mine. To be fair in retrospect, most are demonstrating their cyclones using wood chips with no fines, whereas apart from normal cleanup work, mine is pretty much only used attached to a sander or router, so maybe I'm expecting too much.
Anyway the first result is in. With a total of 183 grams of general dust and sawdust, the thing separated 106 grams out, leaving 77 grams of generally finer stuff in the vacuum itself. Not even 60% was separated! All it's done is given me two bins to empty and the same number of filters to clean.
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So with nothing to lose I separated the two parts of the thing and did a bit of measuring.
The cone seems to be more or less vaguely in the right proportion, to my eye at least and with a very rough measure to confirm.
The outlet tube I think is about two thirds the length that I think it should be, but I think it is the "ramp" which may be the cause of the problem. The photo does not show the extent of the overlap after the first revolution of the inlet, but I think the "ramp" is too shallow, and overlaps the inlet by about a quarter or more of it's diameter, disrupting the flow over the inlet.
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I modified this by moulding a pvc insert to extend into and under the first spiral and repeated my test above. It was clear just from looking at the dust entering the cyclone that it was now in a much more concentrated spiral pattern than before, but my excitement was short-lived. When I measured the same test sample of dust, the amount in the vacuum had gone down from 77 grams to 66. This is of course a 10% improvement, which is something, but the amount of fine dust on the filter cover was only diminished by the amount I'd removed when I cleaned it before repeating the test.
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I have one more thing to try (maybe more if some of you have any better ideas) before I offer it to someone who wants to separate wood chips from fine dust!
I think, if I make an extension piece to fit between the top and bottom mouldings, I can incorporate a proper, steeper ramp to force the dust to make a complete revolution of the unit, and at the same time extend the outlet tube slightly. Here's a model of the "spacer" - I hope it's clear enough. If not - I'll have a crack at modelling the whole thing.
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Sadly (well not really) with a house full of littlies for a week or two, my printer will be taking a well earned break, so I probably won't be able to see if the theory works until next year!
In the meantime, I have time to change my mind and my drawings, so keep the cards and letters coming!
Cheers,
P
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23rd December 2020 12:51 PM # ADSGoogle Adsense Advertisement
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23rd December 2020, 01:39 PM #2
Well; I have the identical item to you, and for me it works as advertised. Unmodified.
I have changed the bag once in the past three years. That was only because the bag was not staying on the outlet inside the vac. I could have just taped it on I suppose but I honestly could not be bothered.
I bought one of the cheapest Bunnings plastic buckets and added ribs on the inside to prevent it collapsing.
I need to clean the vac filter, but that's in the round-tuit department because it does not seem to be affecting performance.
Here is how mine is setup:
IMG_0179.jpg
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23rd December 2020, 01:41 PM #3
I got one of those and was not impressed either. For years I was using a 50 ltr plastic drum as a collector and it actually did a reasonable job. After adding the cyclone there was more dust in the vac than before. Went back to just the drum on its own.
Regards
John
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23rd December 2020, 01:45 PM #4
What sort of shop vacuum machine are you guys using?
The ProTool one I'm using is not the most powerful unit around. Perhaps that is working in its favour in this setup, maybe.
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23rd December 2020, 02:21 PM #5
Thanks for your reply above too - that's the outcome I was hoping for.
The original one was a Jet 1200w, the new one a Ryobi 30 l 1400w (I think). I leave it under the bench and run a 6m hose. Presently I have the two connected via a 3m length of hose (temporarily) as well, which I would have thought would slow things down a bit, but not so apparently.
I was wondering what I did wrong @markharrison! I wouldn't be surprised if the internal geometry is slightly different - they look the same, and there are indeed people getting good results (I'm was hoping to write your sort of report!) that I wonder. I am curious to see whether putting the bag on the machine will throttle it enough to do the trick?
I took it off to make it easier to see how much dust I'm getting.
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23rd December 2020, 02:46 PM #6
I dont think throttling it is the answer.... perhaps the opposite?
You gotta PUMP those numbers!
Make it swirl like a bastard!
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23rd December 2020, 03:26 PM #7
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23rd December 2020, 03:36 PM #8SENIOR MEMBER
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Mines similar and the vac is a Aldi wet dry that quite a few years old now. Nearly everything that goes into this would be small chips and fines from sanding and mitre cross cut, yes i still need to give the vac filter a bit of a clean as there is some bypass but it's minor compared to what is in the metal garbage bin that has a brace about 1/2 way down to stop it collapsing.
One lesson i've observed is that the amount of bypass is governed by how full the bottom collection container is and for my setup about 1/3 -> 1/2 seems to be the magic point.
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23rd December 2020, 05:17 PM #9Woodworking mechanic
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I have a similar looking unit I bought from Aldav. Works as advertised. Probably give the Supervac a clean out once a year. Only a small amount of fine dust. I have 50mm flexible pipes connecting everything.
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23rd December 2020, 05:32 PM #10.
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My testing found a small cyclone like that (a dust deputy) was able to removed between 96.5 and 98.75% of the sawdust.
My setup was a Ryobi W&D shop vac and a dust deputy on top of a 20L bucket and I always empty the bucket before it gets more than 20% full.
Of course this depends on a few factors like
- the makeup of the sawdust - the finer the saw dust, the less is removed
- the air speed - there will be some sort of optimum air speed for extracting a max amount of fine dust.
- shape and volume of the container which relates back to the previous point.
- the amount of sawdust in the container which also relates back to the previous point.
Don't be fooled into thinking the vac filters will trap all of the (most health significant) fine dust that gets past the cyclone.
The greatest percentage of PM2.5 dust produce by wood processing is quite small, ie <1% but this is the stuff to worry about especially as only very small amounts are needed to contaminate sheds and a significant proportion will pass straight through most basic vac filters. Another good reason to locate or vent vacs outside.
This is why I worry a bit when I hear things like "I put a cyclone on my vac and haven't had to clean my vac filters for 2 years ". The most likely reason for this is the really fine dust is probably just going straight through the filters.
I mainly use my shop vac to vac up metal swarf from the MW end of the shed, occasionally on my SCMS which I don't use that often, and to vac the shed floor of leaves and dirt the dogs track into the shed, also does not happened that often. Wood Dust from my fan powered power tools is extracted via 2" hoses connected to my DC system.
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23rd December 2020, 05:46 PM #11GOLD MEMBER
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23rd December 2020, 06:11 PM #12
I really wonder why mine is behaving like a lemon!
As to the dust - I too have a HEPA filter, and am fitting the cyclone in an effort to reduce maintenance. I am hyper-sensitive to wood dust, didn't wear a mask when emptying the bins into the ice-cream tubs pictured, and will probably be over the hay fever and sinus issues by tomorrow. My workspace is not for woodwork per se, but on days when it is I have an outside dust extractor, exhaust fans, air filtration unit (an old Jet) and wear a respirator - (the Trend Stealth has been a godsend as it's small and comfortable to wear all day.)
So I'm keen to get this working!
I might shorten up the run of hose by four metres or so and see if that makes a difference! It's just that it's a lot easier to keep the vac in one place than to have to build a trolley!
Cheers,
P
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23rd December 2020, 06:17 PM #13GOLD MEMBER
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23rd December 2020, 06:48 PM #14
I really wonder why mine is behaving like a lemon!
stop swearing at it like a right royal bassstad, they are sesitive little things and prefer sweat talking tooI would love to grow my own food, but I can not find bacon seeds
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23rd December 2020, 07:16 PM #15
I think my trolley took about 4 hours to make. Most of that was figuring where to put stuff. Cost me nothing except the cyclone and plumbing. Scrappy plywood from a machine that was delivered and bits of scrap wood. I even had the wheels left over from something else.
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