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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
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    Default My greatest fears in a Pen Swap

    Wow, some excellent pens and swaps here. It is very disheartening when your partner does not communicate; If you put your name down, then follow through, the other person will usually be quite ok if you let them know of hiccups, either health or work or etc. But to sit there and just wait and receive no communication is terrible, if you are going to be like that, DON'T sign up.
    Honour your word, with an overseas swap we in a way represent ourselves and our country and our Forum, do yourself, your country and your Forum proud.
    A word to those who just jump in to get a good pen but never really have their heart in it--please don't join in.
    When you find a genuine swap partner, it matters not what you receive, you can tell it comes from the heart from the communications you have with that person.
    So, if you happen to be a bit late, get to and let your partner know what is happening.
    For the majority who have put their time and talent and heart into the swaps, thank you, it is deeply appreciated. Scott , thanks for the effort put into running this one. Amos
    Good, better, best, never let it rest;
    Til your good is better, and your
    better, best.

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  3. #2
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Location
    Ormeau, Gold Coast, Australia
    Posts
    2,491

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by PenTurner View Post
    Wow, some excellent pens and swaps here. It is very disheartening when your partner does not communicate; If you put your name down, then follow through, the other person will usually be quite ok if you let them know of hiccups, either health or work or etc. But to sit there and just wait and receive no communication is terrible, if you are going to be like that, DON'T sign up.
    Honour your word, with an overseas swap we in a way represent ourselves and our country and our Forum, do yourself, your country and your Forum proud.
    A word to those who just jump in to get a good pen but never really have their heart in it--please don't join in.
    When you find a genuine swap partner, it matters not what you receive, you can tell it comes from the heart from the communications you have with that person.
    So, if you happen to be a bit late, get to and let your partner know what is happening.
    For the majority who have put their time and talent and heart into the swaps, thank you, it is deeply appreciated. Scott , thanks for the effort put into running this one. Amos
    Regards Rumnut.

    SimplyWoodwork
    Qld. Australia.

  4. #3
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    Bendigo Victoria
    Age
    80
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    16,560

    Default

    Thanks Amos, very well put.

    Every year we run this swap there have been some disappointed people.

    A few years back I instituted the rule that only people that are members of this forum could join in and I was roundly criticised by some for doing that.

    I put in that rule because we had people from other forums joining in and communication was a nightmare. Since that rule has been in place things have improved somewhat, but we still get the "hit and run" people joining in the swap and I don't really know how to eliminate those people.

    I also put in the rule that those people not completing their swap could not participate in future pen swaps.

    Scott has suggested that we get the email address for every member joining and this may help, although from personal experience if people don't want to communicate there is little one can do about it.

    Getting their forum name on their "home" forum is another of his suggestions. I am not altogether sure how we would define their "home" forum. A lot of the pen turners are members of more than 1 forum, for instance I am a member of at least 4 forums relating to pen turning.

    These swap problems are not confined to this forum, I have participated in quite a few swaps on other pen forums and have been the victim of these very thoughtless people as well.

    As for confining oneself to "domestic" swappees only, one can still be disappointed there as well.

    Having said all that, the vast majority of swaps I have participated in have been a fantastic experience, I have made friends with some great people, received some beautiful pens and some really interesting blanks, so the good has certainly outweighed the not so good.

  5. #4
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Location
    Trinity Beach, Qld.
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    Default

    I get a little wary when our Forum is joined solely for the purpose of the Pen Swap and checking overseas on their "home" Forum shows the person has not really posted there either?
    However my greatest disappointment was on the home scene where the person received the pens sent, but never returned thanks or ever communicated about their circumstances that may have prevented them from sending a swap pen.
    Definitely, I believe the people joining the swap should put their email address and if here in Australia , even their phone number, send these privately to the co -ordinator, at the announcement of the swap partner, the co-ordinator then sends each swap partner the email and phone number privately.
    It won't stop all the unwanted ones, but hopefully help those that do want to communicate and share and swap on a genuine basis. Amos
    PS as for "home" Forum, people should nominate that if they are only casual on our Forum, example I am a member on the IAP but due to time constraints I am mostly active on this Forum, if I join a swap on another forum I use the same name and they can check here to see if I am a fly by night or a genuine person. One forum that I am a member of, requires your real name as your user name, I have no problem with that because I have nothing to hide. Amos
    Good, better, best, never let it rest;
    Til your good is better, and your
    better, best.

  6. #5
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Location
    Ormeau, Gold Coast, Australia
    Posts
    2,491

    Default

    I dont know why some people bother if they can't participate fully. I still dont even know whether my OS swap partner has recieved my pen and other items although the tracking says that it has been delivered, I have yet to recieve any acknowledgement at all. His mail box is full so I cant send a message and to be honest trying to communicate with him has been like pulling teeth. I have at least recieved my swap from him and promptly posted pics but from him nothing. Personally I find his manners somewhat rude. I must say however that my aussie partner was a bloody beaut.
    Regards Rumnut.

    SimplyWoodwork
    Qld. Australia.

  7. #6
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    North of the coathanger, Sydney
    Age
    68
    Posts
    9,417

    Default Amos' concerns

    Amos

    I cannot agree more
    unfortunately there are those whom don't do the right thing.
    I think there are those who deliberately set out to get a free pen and then there are those whom have circumstances occur which is/are beyond their control.
    Having organised this swap in the past it is hard to say no to those whom want to participate. My swappee this year was one I let in at the 23rd hour a year or two ago.
    There is also one member whom couldn't fulfill his side of the bargain a couple of years ago because of rising flood waters who's partner is still willing to go through with the swap (no pens were exchanged at the time).
    Then there are a couple of people (the Aussies are those whose names stick in the mind) whom simply went off air leaving their partners high and dry, shameful conduct really.
    I've also had a couple of people decide not to participate in future swaps because of the poor pens they received from their interstate well known and respected penmakers.

    I put my hat in the ring each year with a bit of trepidation. Will I be ripped off? or will I receive a marvel.
    I try and do a really special pen. This year I made 4 and sent the best 2. I started 6 the other two didn't make muster and the 2nd two have gone into stock.
    I've received great pens from well known OS penmakers and I've received great pens from those who are relatively new to the art. (oh and I've received great pens from my domestic swap partners as well)

    On another note what do people do with their received pens. Originally I had decided to keep each I had received and somehow put them on display. Now I'm coming around to the thought that I really should use them. I suppose when the time comes for me to join the big workshop in the sky, these pens won't mean anything to anybody else. (I might put this question for debate in another thread)
    regards
    Nick
    veni, vidi,
    tornavi
    Without wood it's just ...

  8. #7
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Location
    Baldivis WA
    Age
    40
    Posts
    2,761

    Default Re: Show Us Yer Pens! 2013 Australia Day Pen Swap

    Well I agree with all the above 100% I am in the middle of organizing a swap the Amos who I spoke to for a sort time on the phone today ;-) sorry about the sort conversation mate bloody real job getting in the way again lol and also Grommett aswell so let the pen making begin again for me and the guys away lol. I take my hat off to these guys and plan on chatting to Amos on Thursday on my day off so we can just chat without my real job getting in the way lol thanks guys yous are legends

    Ian

  9. #8
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Location
    Gold Country
    Posts
    223

    Default

    Hmmm I do know that my OS swap partner got his pen (PM confirming it) and I received his, although I STILL havent photographed it to post it here.
    But I am unaware if he received the blanks I sent. No mention of them in this PM and I did send a PM a little while ago asking, but no response.
    I hope he did receive them as there were some nice ones.

    Must take the camera round to the shed tomorrow and get a pic and post it.

  10. #9
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    Bendigo Victoria
    Age
    80
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    Default

    I think we need be careful to point out that it is not only the OS members that create problems, as some people have already pointed out.

    It isn't only people that don't send a pen and/or blanks that take the shine off a swap. It is also those people who don't acknowledge the receipt of a pen and/or blanks.

    Not only is this very disappointing for the sender, who has gone to some trouble and expense, but it is also just plain bad manners.

    Again this sort of behaviour is not confined to OS members, I have experienced this same thing from Oz members as well.

    Considering the average age of the participants in these type of swaps one would expect better manners and more consideration for the other partner involved in the swap.

    I make a point of acknowledging receipt of a pen as soon as possible and express my thanks to my partner(s). Unfortunately that has not always been reciprocated.

    Like Nick, I do a certain amount of soul searching before joining a Pen Swap these days and certainly won't join in the PITH (Pen In The Hat) type swaps as I have had some of my worst results from those.

  11. #10
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Location
    Baldivis WA
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    Default Re: Show Us Yer Pens! 2013 Australia Day Pen Swap

    Quote Originally Posted by Big Shed View Post
    I think we need be careful to point out that it is not only the OS members that create problems, as some people have already pointed out.

    It isn't only people that don't send a pen and/or blanks that take the shine off a swap. It is also those people who don't acknowledge the receipt of a pen and/or blanks.

    Not only is this very disappointing for the sender, who has gone to some trouble and expense, but it is also just plain bad manners.

    Again this sort of behaviour is not confined to OS members, I have experienced this same thing from Oz members as well.

    Considering the average age of the participants in these type of swaps one would expect better manners and more consideration for the other partner involved in the swap.

    I make a point of acknowledging receipt of a pen as soon as possible and express my thanks to my partner(s). Unfortunately that has not always been reciprocated.

    Like Nick, I do a certain amount of soul searching before joining a Pen Swap these days and certainly won't join in the PITH (Pen In The Hat) type swaps as I have had some of my worst results from those.
    Hey Fred

    Agreed I sent mine of to Trev (tdrumnut) and he was over the moon posted pics of the stuff I sent him and I did the same in return even spoke to him over the phone in regards to other matter and he is a top bloke and I am glad I got him in this swap and all my other swaps before hand ran smoothly no problems. I am now organizing some swaps with Amos and Michael so cant wait to make some more up for these two fine gentleman that both put there hands up Thankyou guys u are legends. Not sure what everyone does with there pens for these swap but I use my here at home and work I love it coz when people says wow thats a nice pen were did u buy that and I say this one u cant buy from office works lol and I tell them the whole spill of the pen swap and who made it and what it's made from and they are always blown away at the fact the pen is handcrafted. I got this pen from Dick (whaler1) last year that always catches people's eyes aswell as Trevs one he made me this year from his home casted pod blank ;-) I would love to tell another story from overseas but not sure if it will happen( but there will be two more aussie pens that will get there stories told ;-)

    Thanks
    Ian

  12. #11
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Location
    Mornington Peninsula
    Age
    48
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    2,825

    Default

    Could all of this be put down to lessons learned and the new member maybe not being aware of the protocols of past swaps to a degree? For the people who have not sent anything there is no excuse, however new members may not be aware of the protocol of posting your swap and blanks received and there is no clear convention of how many blanks to swap. I usually articulate this in the contact stages but maybe add a couple of rules for the next swap:

    You are to acknowledge receipt of pen & blanks
    You are to post pics of the received pen & blanks
    You are to send between x & y blanks with your swap. Final number to be agreed upon prior to swap.

    I'm guessing more could be added but this swap has become a much bigger evolution from when it started. I think there needs to be a formalising of rules/protocols upfront for new members to be aware of. I have no doubt there will still be issues but it may address some of the concerns raised above.
    It's only a mistake if you don't learn from it.

  13. #12
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
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    Bendigo Victoria
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    Default

    Corbs, I don't think given the average age of the swap participants that it should be necessary to make a rule that states that they should acknowledge receipt of a pen, surely it is (as I already pointed out) just plain good manners?

    As for specifying the number of blanks, I would be against specifying any number of blanks, it is after all a pen swap, not a blank swap. We have to be careful that we don't raise the bar, expenditure wise, as this would preclude some people from particpating.

    I have often sent more blanks than I have received, but I have also received more blanks than I have sent on other occassions. It sometimes depends on postage cost/parcel weight etc.

    One thing that concerned me about this years' swap was the double swap interpretation of the Dom/OS selection. That always meant "yes I am happy to do either" not "yes I am happy to do both".

    It appears that this caught some other people by surprise too and certainly increased the cost for everyone. Whilst that hasn't worried me, I am somewhat concerned that it may have caused some concern for others.

    I don't know what other people think, but I am not sure that this should be an on going part of our Pen Swap.

  14. #13
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Location
    Harmers Haven Victoria
    Age
    75
    Posts
    854

    Default

    I have been involved in the last two swaps. My reading/understanding was that ticking OS/Dom meant that I was volunteering for both, and that ticking extra meant that I was willing to make weight for any shortfall. 2012 saw me with 2 OS swaps, 2013 1 OS and 1 DOM. I appreciate the effort the organizer puts in to arrange this and I am happy with what I have received. I am in again for next year.
    Michael

    Wood Butcher

  15. #14
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Location
    Harmers Haven Victoria
    Age
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Big Shed View Post
    Corbs, I don't think given the average age of the swap participants that it should be necessary to make a rule that states that they should acknowledge receipt of a pen, surely it is (as I already pointed out) just plain good manners?

    As for specifying the number of blanks, I would be against specifying any number of blanks, it is after all a pen swap, not a blank swap. We have to be careful that we don't raise the bar, expenditure wise, as this would preclude some people from particpating.

    I have often sent more blanks than I have received, but I have also received more blanks than I have sent on other occassions. It sometimes depends on postage cost/parcel weight etc.

    One thing that concerned me about this years' swap was the double swap interpretation of the Dom/OS selection. That always meant "yes I am happy to do either" not "yes I am happy to do both".

    It appears that this caught some other people by surprise too and certainly increased the cost for everyone. Whilst that hasn't worried me, I am somewhat concerned that it may have caused some concern for others.

    I don't know what other people think, but I am not sure that this should be an on going part of our Pen Swap.
    i just posted in the other thread. Please move me.
    Michael

    Wood Butcher

  16. #15
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
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    Trinity Beach, Qld.
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    Default

    I think just plain good manners should be enough concerning the acknowledging of a pen received; it is a pen swap, the blanks are up to the individual, I think I have usually been given more blanks than I have sent!!, The blanks are just icing on the cake, MMMM!!! give me more icing!!! , if someone is genuine they will acknowledge and answer immediately if possible. However, sometimes it feels like "oh, well, got my pen, that is what I was after, back to my little no manners pig sty, see what I can scrounge out of someone else!"
    By and large, there are many great people out there, it is the spirit of giving and the spirit of thankfulness; Thanks to all who have given from their hearts, Amos
    Good, better, best, never let it rest;
    Til your good is better, and your
    better, best.

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