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  1. #196
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    OMG...head in a bucket of sand time. It is an accident waiting to happen.


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  3. #197
    Mobyturns's Avatar
    Mobyturns is offline In An Instant Your Life Can Change Forever
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    Quote Originally Posted by flyingsecret View Post
    Great comments and I really appreciate your feedback. Safety for some reason has always been an awkward subject to approach at any level and to any audience so resistance is understandable....... and change will only come about by diligence and persistance. Don't become disheartened if you sound like the lone wolf because your actions are proactive input and who knows what harm your words may have already been avoided as a result. I know I sound like a broken record myself and it seems crazy to me that after 44 years in an industry where we always had dedicated officers to manage safety and to which I was always a little weary of that I now preach the word but the thing is after all that time it became a culture in my work ethics. I understand your point about the transient population during the day and that is a difficult problem. I know within our smaller group we have certain guys that take the lead due to trade, skill base and experience and we try to cultivate a spirit of dont use a peice of machinery until you have received instrucrion and are competent. Like many Sheds we spend time making stuff for stalls, applying for funds etc..... the bread and butter that keeps us going but a couple of realities of working around rotating machinery is that it costs alot to replace/repair and it has little regard for fingers. Most of all we want to have fun but we need to be responsible in how we achieve that...... I never took safety awards ( well once when it was an Acubra hat and I had a farm so it made sense) my honest belief was that if I and my workmates could go home to our families at the end of a shift then that was the best award for everyone. We have just recently had our shed rewired so we dont have extension leads on the ground (trip hazard) we have had all electrical machinery safety tagged (prevents electic shocks) upgraded some older machinery, imposed a no hot work ban 1/2 hour before knock off in the metal room so we can maintain a fire watch before closing up..... Steer the course my friend because your deligence will pay dividends I believe. Hope this encourages you.
    Unfortunately there is only so much a koala can bear, the stress of constantly being the odd man out wears many volunteers down to the point that they no longer enjoy being part of the Men's Shed etc. When a group is united in working towards a common goal it is a light burden, however if there is disharmony it is better for their own mental health to walk away.

    I can never understand why a large percentage of the population has so much resistance to safety programs. In the seventies people strongly resisted the mandatory implementation of seat belts now most don't even question the requirement to wear them - its now normal. Motorcycle helmets, face shields, hearing & breathing protection etc all have faced the same initial and lengthy resistance. Eventually it will become normalized behaviour BUT it is a slow process.
    Mobyturns

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  4. #198
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    Feb 2003
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    back in Alberta for a while
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    Quote Originally Posted by BobL View Post
    I'm no longer involved with supervision at the shed and just drop in about once a week to drop stuff off and pick stuff up for repairs etc. However, FWIW I have heard the committee had a meeting with the Council, who own the building, and the committee was informed by the council representative of the following. The council will only concern itself with what goes on outside the building (i.e. public safety) and the building itself. but is not concerned with how things are run inside the building. The only remaining lever on safe operation is the insurance policy which assumes that things are done safely.
    interesting.

    in the NSW context, which is probably the same for WA, outside the building equates to the Work Health and Safety obligation on an employer to protect passersby and visitors.

    as I said, interesting
    regards from Alberta, Canada

    ian

  5. #199
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    Jul 2005
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    Mandurah, Western Australia
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    67
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    Oh its great here... NSW has different building laws to WA. Nearly every state here is different... Then there's NMSA & there's WAMSA...National & Western Australia Mensshed Associations.... OHS have different rules in nearly every industry... it's just a mine field! Need a full time secretary to keep tag on changing rules. Think in TestNTag there are even different colours in one state. Real fun for the trades. Oh, & thats not to mention local by-laws.
    Don't think you're playing it safe by walking in the middle of the road.....that's the surest way to get hit by traffic coming from both ways!
    I'm passionate about woodwork.......making Sawdust again & loving it!

  6. #200
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    Feb 2006
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    Perth
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mobyturns View Post
    Unfortunately there is only so much a koala can bear, the stress of constantly being the odd man out wears many volunteers down to the point that they no longer enjoy being part of the Men's Shed etc. When a group is united in working towards a common goal it is a light burden, however if there is disharmony it is better for their own mental health to walk away.
    That pretty well sums it up for me.

    I retired from a high risk, uni lab environment (radioactivity, high voltage, lasers, chemicals etc) where things had gone from "slack as" in the 1970's to OTT (in the late naughties). By the time I retired there were some dozen full time people on campus involved in OHS (mostly managers f some kind or other), and in the unit I managed of some 70 people we had 9 staff tied up with OHS duties. The full time OHS people were near useless and they had to ask us what we did and could not advise much beyond how to use an office chair or pick up a box of books. The paperwork was horrendous and often seemed pointless. As a manager, on one side I was involved on dragging some staff into the 21st century practices, not unlike the mens shed, while on the other side sometimes had to go into bat for expert staff so they could continue their research. When I retired I was just glad to get away from the whole OHS juggernaught full stop.

    When I joined the mens shed I just assumed OHS would be an upfront consideration, nit of course at the same level as my former work place but at least at a basic level. I turned up on the first day with my own muffs, face shield, leather apron and boots etc and felt a bit like the guest who turns up to a party in fancy dress and got it wrong. The blokes were delightful but OHS was definitely a long way down the list. Things definitely improved over time but especially as a supervisor I just didn't feel right about the speed things were moving which I why I pulled out of that role. I popped in this morning for 2 minutes to pick something up - the place was full and "busy as". I don't look too hard and my mental health is much better.

  7. #201
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
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    se Melbourne
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    Yeah, sometimes its best not to look to close at things.
    When I walk around my work site if I see something obvious I take action. Saw a damaged lead on a vacuum cleaner, so told the cleaner that it was unsafe and had every right not to use it. "Take it out of service." Easier to replace/repair the vacuum cleaner than the staff member (over 35 years service!) Yet other cleaners would want to carry on until sparks fly!

    Being a safety person is probably a thankless task, but the thanks is not having to fill in accident forms and contact family after the event.

  8. #202
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    Feb 2006
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    Perth
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    "Trooubble at Mill" again.

    Dropped in at the mens shed today and within as many minutes spotted the following.

    Bloke using a cut off saw without any face PPE.

    These two containers of Hydrochloric acid outside in a walk way.
    I'll bet they are still there next week
    IMG_3148.jpg

    Someone finally worked out why the TS is releasing a lot of dust.
    IMG_3162.jpg

    I wonder how long it will take before they realize that 4" port is too small.

    Now you know why I no longer work there.

  9. #203
    Mobyturns's Avatar
    Mobyturns is offline In An Instant Your Life Can Change Forever
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    " I said "DON'T LOOK, BOB!!" 'n' it's too late - he'd already been INcensed. "

    my apologies to Ray Stevens.
    Mobyturns

    In An Instant Your Life CanChange Forever

  10. #204
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    May 2011
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    Albury
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    Yeah, there's nobody 'responsible' for any of those jobs/maintenance issues so everybody just considers it somebody else's problem. Our local woodcrafters club is not perfect in this regard, but it leaves the local men's sheds for dead. I can't believe some of the dumb things people do and even if it's pointed out there's rarely any corrective action or instruction.

  11. #205
    crowie's Avatar
    crowie is offline Life's Good, Enjoy each new day & try to encourage
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    Quote Originally Posted by aldav View Post
    Yeah, there's nobody 'responsible' for any of those jobs/maintenance issues so everybody just considers it somebody else's problem.
    “The Responsibility Poem”

    There was a most important job that needed to be done,
    And no reason not to do it, there was absolutely none.
    But in vital matters such as this, the thing you have to ask
    Is who exactly will it be who’ll carry out the task?
    Anybody could have told you that Everybody knew
    That this was something Somebody would surely have to do.
    Nobody was unwilling; Anybody had the ability.
    But Nobody believed that it was their responsibility.
    It seemed to be a job that Anybody could have done,
    If Anybody thought he was supposed to be the one.
    But since Everybody recognized that Anybody could,
    Everybody took for granted that Somebody would.
    But Nobody told Anybody that we are aware of,
    That he would be in charge of seeing it was taken care of.
    And Nobody took it on himself to follow through,
    And do what Everybody thought that Somebody would do.
    When what Everybody needed so did not get done at all,
    Everybody was complaining that Somebody dropped the ball.
    Anybody then could see it was an awful crying shame,
    And Everybody looked around for Somebody to blame.
    Somebody should have done the job
    And Everybody should have,
    But in the end Nobody did
    What Anybody could have.

  12. #206
    FenceFurniture's Avatar
    FenceFurniture is offline The prize lies beneath - hidden in full view
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    Quote Originally Posted by BobL View Post
    I turned up on the first day with my own muffs, face shield, leather apron and boots etc and felt a bit like the guest who turns up to a party in fancy dress and got it wrong.
    Bob, that is fancy dress. I really hope you didn't walk in wearing full regalia

    Anyway, what's wrong with compacted dust in a TS? At least you can snap off a clean lump in one piece.



    WRT safety issues in public sheds: I think the only way it can really stay safe is if someone who is "qualified" or ticketed (or similar) operates the trickier machinery like TS, BS etc. So, "eh Bluey, I need you to rip some timber for this bloke". Probably an ungainly system, but.....

    I joined a shed some years ago, but that was really only so I could finish a project as part of a course that was using the Shed (a Council course). Most of the machines were, uhhh, "ordinary", and the chisels were the best screwdrivers I've ever seen - never seen a 1" wide screwdriver before.

    I observed one guy - and I chit you not - feed half the length of a plank into a Triton TS, let it go (still running - I guess he pulled it back slightly off the blade), walk around the other end and then pull it through - instead of asking one of only 15 or so people to help.
    Regards, FenceFurniture

    COLT DRILLS GROUP BUY
    Jan-Feb 2019 Click to send me an email

  13. #207
    Mobyturns's Avatar
    Mobyturns is offline In An Instant Your Life Can Change Forever
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    Quote Originally Posted by FenceFurniture View Post

    I observed one guy - and I chit you not - feed half the length of a plank into a Triton TS, let it go (still running - I guess he pulled it back slightly off the blade), walk around the other end and then pull it through - instead of asking one of only 15 or so people to help.
    He probably figured that was the safest option for him, as he had seen the others in action.
    Mobyturns

    In An Instant Your Life CanChange Forever

  14. #208
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    Perth
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    Quote Originally Posted by FenceFurniture View Post
    Bob, that is fancy dress. I really hope you didn't walk in wearing full regalia
    I had all the gear in two large plastic shopping bags so no-one saw what I had.

    One of the first things I did was purchase some safety glasses, muffs and face shields but they have hardly been used as they are gathering dust on a shelf.

  15. #209
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    Dec 2011
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    SC, USA
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    The woodworking club I was involved with prior to my last move had a very simple policy.

    You don't work safe here - you don't work here. They would politely remind you and if you didn't comply - they would boot you for the day.

    Simple but effective.

    And the shop supervisor basically had 1 concern in this regard - "I don't care what you do at home... You won't do it on my watch".

    And if you got belligerant about it - you got booted from the club for good.

  16. #210
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    Quote Originally Posted by FenceFurniture View Post
    ......Anyway, what's wrong with compacted dust in a TS? At least you can snap off a clean lump in one piece.
    ......

    Great idea, FF.

    Compact the dust in the TS and every month you can remove one great big lump. Far better than having all that dust in the air and all over the shop!



    Cheers

    Graeme

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