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  1. #91
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    While i'm at it, our shed has installed a Defribrilator and about 20 of our members attended an instruction course on how to use it. It is quite true the machine tells you what to do but it is also necessary to administer CPR so not much use knowing how to use the machine if you dont know how to do CPR.
    Reality is no background music.
    Cheers John

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  3. #92
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    Quote Originally Posted by BobL View Post
    23 of our members attended a First aid short (3 hours) course last year run by a St John's.
    (We also have 5 members with full first aid certificates)
    Quote Originally Posted by Handyjack;
    The good thing about doing a first aid course, is that the skills can be used anywhere. It is hoped that they are never needed, but sooner or later they might be needed. I myself regularly do a first aid course (paid for by a place where I volunteer), yet I have been called upon as a first aider where I am employed full time (in a medical facility).
    Great advice.

    I have had first aid qualifications for almost 30 years and so far have never been involved in a serious case. I hope it remains so. But.......

    Everyone should be encouraged to undertake basic training. You never know when it might be needed.

    Fair Winds

    Graeme

  4. #93
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    Mobyturns is offline In An Instant Your Life Can Change Forever
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    Quote Originally Posted by GraemeCook View Post
    Great advice.

    I have had first aid qualifications for almost 30 years and so far have never been involved in a serious case. I hope it remains so. But.......

    Everyone should be encouraged to undertake basic training. You never know when it might be needed.

    Fair Winds

    Graeme
    I would recommend that anyone involved in management of a Men's Shed obtain a First Aid qualification.

    It seems natural to me to have one as I completed my first senior first aid course while in grade 10. Our physical education teacher was a fitness fanatic and encouraged many of the class to do first aid with an emphasis on sports injury. Then gaining a "first aid certificate" was a mandatory requirement of a surveying tertiary course, no certificate no graduation! My employer ensures staff complete a basic first aid and resuscitation training refresher course at least every two years and some staff have to do a full course every year to maintain various registrations or to meet entry requirements to many work & mine sites. My wife has also regularly done refresher courses.

    Over the years purely by chance we have been first responders to some quite serious road accidents and have used our training assisting casualties with some pretty nasty injuries. Knowing you are applying appropriate and current first aid techniques is very reassuring and gives you a sense of control & confidence in what can be a pretty graphic and traumatic situation. It is even more reassuring to have an "ambo" lean over your shoulder and say "keep doing what you are doing while I triage the others." Even better when they say "job well done."

    ps One thing I would add - put the hard word on your mates to do a first aid course. You being the only one to have a first aid qualification in not much use if you are the casualty.
    Last edited by Mobyturns; 30th January 2016 at 06:18 PM. Reason: added p
    Mobyturns

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  5. #94
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    First day back at the shed for me as the Friday Coordinator after the Xmas and New Year break.
    It was a hot day which is probably why only 10 members turned up but I signed up two new members and we had a visitor from another shed.
    No safety issues all day.

    .

  6. #95
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    Glad to hear that Bob
    To grow old is mandatory, growing up is optional.

  7. #96
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    Quote Originally Posted by BobL View Post
    No safety issues all day.

    .
    Perhaps they have been reading this thread and had the c##p scared out of them.
    Tom

    "It's good enough" is low aim

  8. #97
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mobyturns View Post
    I would recommend that anyone involved in management of a Men's Shed obtain a First Aid qualification.
    Hi Mobyturns

    Why limit the first aid training to those involved in management? I think everyone should be encouraged to acquire first aid skills. Whjat happens if management is not there or is the victim?

    Even in enterprises where OHAS specifies that a minimum of 10 or 20% shall be first aid trained, it is very difficult for Personnel to ensure that every shift in every section is adequately covered, and complicated by RDO's and leave.

    Idealistic, but in my view the target should be 100% first aid trained.


    Cheers

    Graeme

  9. #98
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    First aid can be required any where, from the home to recreation, the shops, to work. Even the basic stuff can effect the long term outcome.
    I work in a medical facility, lots of qualified nurses and a few doctors, but incidents from falls, fainting and other incidents might mean any (non medical) staff member might be there first. I have come a cross member of public who had fallen, while not urgent, they need attention. Yes, the doctors came but the first few minutes just to get them to sit down was hard. (I herd latter the doctors thought they had a broken nose to go with broken glasses.)
    The more that have some training the better for all.

  10. #99
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    Quote Originally Posted by GraemeCook View Post
    Hi Mobyturns

    Why limit the first aid training to those involved in management? I think everyone should be encouraged to acquire first aid skills. Whjat happens if management is not there or is the victim?

    Even in enterprises where OHAS specifies that a minimum of 10 or 20% shall be first aid trained, it is very difficult for Personnel to ensure that every shift in every section is adequately covered, and complicated by RDO's and leave.

    Idealistic, but in my view the target should be 100% first aid trained.


    Cheers

    Graeme
    Yes, I agree more the merrier in my book. My only reason to say "involved in management" was because the OP started about supervisors & safety frustration.

    One of the many reasons I left the local club was because a member put three fingers into a band saw causing a near amputation of the fingers. No one on duty that session, which included a few committee members and the club president, had a first aid qualification or knew what to do. They did not refer to the large poster in the club house giving directions to contact 000 and decided to take the casualty directly to the ambulance station which was only 500m or so away. There was a clear direction not to do this, on the poster and in the safe operating procedures which every member had to read and sign off on in an application for an "authority to operate workshop machinery." The direction existed because there is no "casualty" rooms on site at the ambo station and the building is secured, with no public access. Purely by chance an ambo was outside the building and called an ambulance to the station for them. As secretary I found out about this many weeks after the event.
    Mobyturns

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  11. #100
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    Over the years since Incorporation was introduced here in NSW I have been involved in a number of organisations the first as P&C Vice President then President at my kids primary school back in the 70's. Been through drawn out meetings with even a lawyer present at one to fully inform the group or legal ramifications. I found this and it may quell or inflame this thread I hope it shines some light to those who wish to clarify.
    I have seen groups walk away from incorporation and just become a group of people that meet to avoid the hassles.

    https://www.communitydirectors.com.au/icda/tools/?articleId=4435

    One reason for groups or individuals who have gone through legal matters of this nature do not come to light is one of disclosure of such although people do talk.
    Last edited by wheelinround; 1st February 2016 at 08:24 AM. Reason: Forgot to add

  12. #101
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    Quote Originally Posted by munruben View Post
    Well what a can of worms this thread has opened up. Firstly let me say I am a shed leader in my area and we are a member of the AMSA and I was very concerned about my liability should something happen in our shed. I wrote to the AMSA and asked if insurance covered me in the event that a shed member was injured in the shed while using a machine and using a technique I had instructed him to use which in my mind is the safest way I know how to use that machine for a particular cut; my letter was forwarded to the insurance company who I guess AMSA use for its members and I received a reply from the actual insurance company advising that I am covered if such an incident occurred. My shed is funded by a not for profit organisation and the shed is completely run by unpaid,, volunteer members.

    As someone mentioned in an earlier post, there are now well over 900 sheds in Australia and with all the legal assumptions made here in this thread, not one post quotes evidence of a shed committee member or supervisor in a shed, being sued and losing all his assets. The Men sheds have been going for quite some time now and as far as I can see, not one person has come forward with concrete evidence of someone losing everything they own due to their being taken to court over the matters mentioned here. Most of these posts are based on supposition and even lawyers apparently don't know the full ramifications involved. Lets face it, if we concerned ourselves with every time we can be held responsible for something we do when we go out of our home; we probably wouldn't leave the safety of our home. We can justify most things using scare tactics and legal jargon of bush lawyers but in reality not one person has cited a legal case that involved a men shed or a men shed supervisor or member. I agree from experience in my local men shed, it is very difficult to make someone do what they dont want to do and that is the real issue so as to prevent them injuring themselves or others in the shed. I think this is the bigger issue here and is something that can be addressed rather than making assumptions and wild claims of what may or may not happen if we are taken to court.

    I think it was stated in post 73 that one should never remove a riving knife for instance from a table saw. (I am paraphrasing) This is not always possible in some instances such as some trench cutting or using a dado blade and in these examples it is quite necessary to remove the riving knife..

    In reality a court would also take into account the age of the person injured and most shed members are old and in their late 60s and some much older; I doubt there would be pay-outs of hundreds of thousands of dollars for us oldies. Am I really worth that much? hope it doesn't give someone ideas.

    Hi John good to see you about again.

    In the case of contactin AMSA regarding their stance to the individual sheds and group on disabled access, membership and treatment of the same the reply I got was "It is up to the individual shed" I was informed if a shed and members decides it does not want to follow Australian Human Rights Laws it becomes their matter. AMSA does not give (or didn't 12/18 months ago) guide lines for shed legal.

  13. #102
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    Quote Originally Posted by wheelinround View Post
    In the case of contactin AMSA regarding their stance to the individual sheds and group on disabled access, membership and treatment of the same the reply I got was "It is up to the individual shed" I was informed if a shed and members decides it does not want to follow Australian Human Rights Laws it becomes their matter. AMSA does not give (or didn't 12/18 months ago) guide lines for shed legal.
    They can't provide even general guidelines as there are too many variations in the way sheds are organised and managed. They do encourage and provide a lot of useful safety info which is if followed would cover most safety problems.

  14. #103
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    Quote Originally Posted by BobL View Post
    They can't provide even general guidelines as there are too many variations in the way sheds are organised and managed. They do encourage and provide a lot of useful safety info which is if followed would cover most safety problems.
    Bob WHY can't they every organisation Incorporated has to by law.?
    If you read the link I posted above you'll find out the legal ramifications of them NOT doing their job and informing their members AMSA being the main body they now collect $20+ per member and its their boar who hand out the rights to being AMSA sheds.
    This is why I refused to become a P&C board member after 2 yrs of being in that role. The P & C head office which was at the time run mainly by teachers refused to take a matter of a head master over riding P & C at the school and making changes without notifications or the legal matter of bring it before the meetings to be discussed. It made a mockery of the rules and regulations set out by P & C head office for Incorporation laws, the process of running meetings and the organisation at the school placed every member in danger of being sued should anything have gone wrong. Oh and it did the school had a tennis court which was hired out after hours and weekends. That meant toilets had to be accessible he would not leave keys to unlock them resulting in a member of the public who required it urgently in dire straights due to a tummy bug. Fortunate for the P & C the person was aware of the head master and took matters out with him alone. Minor yes unlike someone who broke and ankle while playing.

    This also means that ALL organisations must be aware of ALL laws and legal matters pertaining to, changes of such laws and continuing updates to ALL members ASAP. The attitudes as in all things vary some are over the top and become Nazi types laying the law down week after week others don't give a Rats and just plod along. I've seen the worst of both, I have seen a good try at middle of the road and all was well until someone pointed out a safety matter overlooked and it went back into deep mandatory training for all again.

    I myself have been discriminated against by 3 turners groups and 2 Mens sheds because LOML who is also my carer was ordered to leave the place "No woman aloud" no explanation acceptable for why I needed her there was good enough. A clear case of breach of Human Rights laws. The members of one group took matters into their own hands and dismissed the committee shortly after and the group has grown since with women allowed on any day they are open.

    I have seen clear breaches of organisations (not mens sheds) who refuse to have minuets taken, bank accounts even opened (money raised stored in a safe at a members home) NO treasurers reports, NO safety rules and more. This is all matters which can put those members at risk of legal action. Its not just about injury or stupid mistakes which could have been avoided OR the bravado attitude of past years in workshops of the older generations.

  15. #104
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    Quote Originally Posted by wheelinround View Post
    Bob WHY can't they every organisation Incorporated has to by law.?
    Not all mens sheds are incorporated.
    Individual Men's Sheds only have to be incorporated if they wish to be level 1 AMSA members which enables a shed to access AMSA insurance.
    A few mens sheds have found they can get cheaper insurance outside AMSA and have left the AMSA level 1 membership and opted for level 2 membership.
    The level 2 sheds pay a flat $200 per year for AMSA shed member services.
    The way these sheds are set up varies so AMSA can't be expected to pay for legal advice to these sheds.

  16. #105
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    Quote Originally Posted by BobL View Post
    Not all mens sheds are incorporated.
    Individual Men's Sheds only have to be incorporated if they wish to be level 1 AMSA members which enables a shed to access AMSA insurance.
    A few mens sheds have found they can get cheaper insurance outside AMSA and have left the AMSA level 1 membership and opted for level 2 membership.
    The level 2 sheds pay a flat $200 per year for AMSA shed member services.
    The way these sheds are set up varies so AMSA can't be expected to pay for legal advice to these sheds.
    Thanks Bob thats very interesting and obviously new since i last looked at their website.

    Even so they still pay an association Fee making them part thereof AMSA. Its still does not give any group rights to not follow Australian laws such as Human Rights, Organisation Laws governing groups which seem to vary state to state.

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