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  1. #16
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Location
    Japan
    Posts
    144

    Default Hi BozInOz

    Wagon vice-

    After making my bench and using it I would have to say that having a wagon vice should be a keeper. Especially as you say you want this to last generations. I don't have one on my bench simply because of the size of my shop. If I had space I would add one. I have to use a wonder dog which is good for wood with some thickness, but when you want to plane something rather thin the physical dimensions of the wonder dog mean that it gets in the way. With a wagon vice you you'll be able to push the bench dogs right down and still hold very thin stock. If cost is an issue you can always go with Chris's original cheap version.


    Pup in the top of the leg vice-

    From my understanding of the working of the leg vice, the top won't always be perfectly vertical; there will be some tilt as it is tightened up. If it is not straight up and down, the slightly angled face of the dog will not hold the work piece properly and there could be a danger of the work popping out the top.

    If this is not a problem then you will have to drill a hoizontal hole in the face or back of the vice block so that you can get your finger in to pop the dog out if it drops below the surface. Other wise ...



    Design-

    Why have the legs at the corners? I know this was one of my original concepts also but I changed this to have some overhang. Being able to clamp things to the end of your bench will be very handy. With an overhang, legs won't be getting in the way and you'll also be able to put boxes or drawers etc over the end of your bench to plane or work on them. With the legs on the ends, you won't be able to do this. A side benefit of the over hang is more height under the top for storage at those locations.

    Sliding deadman & storage-

    I think you will have decide on which is most important for you and future users; storage of sliding deadman?

    Otherwise it is compromise as stated where sometimes you just won't be able to access the storage.

    Otherwise have very sahllow storage so that doors or drawers can be opened and acccesss even if the sliding deadman is in the way.

    My suggestion, for what it is worth, if you are looking at storage under your bench then skip the sliding deadman and use one of the many other methods for supporting the work. I think that the handle on the sliding deadman as you have it will get in the way when hand planing anyway. Save your back.. But obviously, if you are an electron burner then it may be ok.


    Construction-

    As pointed out, think about how you will construct the bench. I am sure that your wood is a lot heavier than mine, and mine was hard enough alone.

    Rob

    Addition Make sure your timber is DRY!.....I have just finished redoing my jaws and the front face of the whole bench. As the front face of all components (legs, top and stretchers) are in one plane, it is important that shrinkage etc is all even. My wood was apparently not as dry as I thought and it moved a bit. After taking out the warp in the jaws of my twin screw I had to take 2mm or 3mm off the entire front of the bench. This was a major pain and I would imagine that your bench is going to be a LOT heavier. So wait and make sure everything is dry now and save a lot of hastles later.

    As a side note, one good thing came out of my redoing the front of the bench, I was able to correct a few minor imperfections in having the bench front all in one plane. Once I get it all back together it should be great.

    Rob

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  3. #17
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    Australia
    Posts
    752

    Default

    A reply to RobTro.

    Wagon vice- After making my bench and using it I would have to say that having a wagon vice should be a keeper.
    Several people have made the same comment about the usefulness of the wagon vise and the limitation of wonderpups for thin timber.
    To hold timber for planing, routing etc would be very handy.
    Benchcrafted claim that vertically a board 11-3/4" wide can fit in the vise. That's impressive. Cf. Vertias twin screw with centers at 16 3/4 and 24" (the vise I originally was after.) 11 is wide enough for most tasks such as drawers.


    Pup in the top of the leg vice- From my understanding of the working of the leg vice, the top won't always be perfectly vertical...
    If this is not a problem then you will have to drill a hoizontal hole in the face or back of the vice block so that you can get your finger in to pop the dog out if it drops below the surface. Other wise ...
    lol. Good thought. I'll have to wait an see. Probably a reason I've never seen it done.


    Design- Why have the legs at the corners? I know this was one of my original concepts also but I changed this to have some overhang.
    Originally i had a twin screw on one end and wanted the co-planer support the legs and base provided. Now the benefit is in extending the length at which the sliding leg vise can move. The design has an overhang on one side. Why would you need both?

    Sliding deadman & storage-
    I think you will have decide on which is most important for you and future users; storage of sliding deadman?Otherwise it is compromise as stated where sometimes you just won't be able to access the storage...I think that the handle on the sliding deadman as you have it will get in the way when hand planing anyway.
    I agree that it might jsut come down to - storage or the sliding deadman. I don't really need the storage but it would be handy to have tools close, and seems like a lot of shop space not to use. Depends on how close the handels are to the bench.

    The other comment I have is that I don't think the handle will be a great issue while jointing or planing on top. Is that what you meant?

    Construction- As pointed out, think about how you will construct the bench. I am sure that your wood is a lot heavier than mine, and mine was hard enough alone.
    It's heavy.

    Addition Make sure your timber is DRY!
    Chris Scwartz wasn't so concerned about wood shrinking in his book. I like you though am worried about warping. That's one of the reason I cut my pieces early. Later, I'll rough machine them, and leave to dry again, before final machining.
    My blog: ~ for the love of wood ~ - http://theloveofwood.blogspot.com/

  4. #18
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    Australia
    Posts
    752

    Default

    I've made some progress on the sketch up plan...
    - Raised the leg vise screw 100mm
    - Worked a little more on the sliding mechanism. It can be removed... but not easily.
    - Made space for wagon vise and end cup.

    Hmm... I need a bigger garage.
    Dan
    My blog: ~ for the love of wood ~ - http://theloveofwood.blogspot.com/

  5. #19
    Join Date
    Nov 2003
    Location
    Sydney
    Age
    53
    Posts
    8,879

    Default

    Finished?

    Visit my website at www.myFineWoodWork.com

  6. #20
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    Wagga Wagga
    Age
    65
    Posts
    42

    Default

    Hey Dan, If I could just put my 2 bob's worth in for you. I have a chest of draws under my bench and it's a right royal PITA. The thought that you have your tools at hand is correct...but every time I open a drawer to search for a tool, a good load of sawdust & shavings always seems to drop into the drawer. I'm a bit of a messer I suppose, and as the drawers are all about 4-5"deep, they seem to just collect tools...& lots of them.
    Then theres the problem that as soon as I mount a little something in the face vice, I need a tool from the top drawer...and it's obstructed. Un-do the vice...search for tools, swear at the amount of sawdust that drops on top of the beautiful shiny tools all stacked on top of each other...then back to work.

    Mate, I'd never put a chest of draws under a bench again. I would much prefer to have them overhead (as Christopher S has in his book) or in a cabinet at the end of the bench...which is my preference, so they can be closed away from the night air & general dust.

    I think the void under a bench is attractive as a storage area...but folly in my humble opinion. Certainly using the storage area adds weight to the bench to stop it from moving around...but then also has the downside of making the bench to heavy to move if needed. Christopher S mentiones many times in his book that he moves his bench around a good deal. I think your bench will have plenty of mass & still be moveable. My bench at the moment is just way to heavy to move...so I don't. I would like to change that some time in the future.
    Use the storage area for shooting boards...saw hooks...hold downs & the like...but not a multy layered sawdust trap.
    JM
    John'o !!

  7. #21
    Join Date
    Aug 2003
    Location
    Pambula
    Age
    58
    Posts
    12,779

    Default

    Yep I agree. I pulled the drawers out from under my bench. The only good thing about it was that I could slide a drawer part way out and use it like a dead man. Otherwise, it was a nuisance when it came to access while the bench was in use.
    "I don't practice what I preach because I'm not the kind of person I'm preaching to."

  8. #22
    Join Date
    Nov 2003
    Location
    Sydney
    Age
    53
    Posts
    8,879

    Default

    Dan, I totally agree with JohnnoM. Let your workbench be a nice workbench and forget about the storage. Many times I was tempted to add drawers to my workbench but then I thought Nah!!
    Visit my website at www.myFineWoodWork.com

  9. #23
    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    Location
    Melbourne
    Age
    66
    Posts
    271

    Default

    I have to agree that drawers under the bench are not ideal. Having said that, I'm currently building some for my bench because I need all the storage space I can get in my cramped workshop.

  10. #24
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Location
    Melbourne
    Posts
    5,271

    Default

    I put drawers under my bench and I really like the set-up. The deep drawers on the left hold some hand powertools, and the shallow ones on the right hold all the smaller gadgets and handtools.
    .
    I know you believe you understand what you think I wrote, but I'm not sure you realize that what you just read is not what I meant.


    Regards, Woodwould.

  11. #25
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    sydney
    Posts
    694

    Default

    Hi dan, my workbench incorporates two sets of draws which can be removed should they be a nuisance. The sliding deadman can be removed also, if they happen to be in the way.
    https://www.woodworkforums.com/showth...rkbench&page=2

    Zelk

  12. #26
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    Australia
    Posts
    752

    Default Sliding Leg Vise

    I've come to realization that in the online woodworking community there are only 3 documented workbenches with sliding leg vises. If there are any more I'd be keen to know.

    An old picture. Blogged at Lost Art Press.



    Bill Liebold's. Blogged at Popular Woodworking.
    Angle iron is used to re-enforce the top.




    Jameel (Khalaf) Abraham's Blogged at Khalaf's Oud.
    Angle iron on both sides. Big Wooden Vises.
    My blog: ~ for the love of wood ~ - http://theloveofwood.blogspot.com/

  13. #27
    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    Location
    Redlands area, Brisbane
    Posts
    1,488

    Default

    I really like this design with the sliding leg vise as well. I had one drawn up to make then chickened out and bought a bench but this is still on the list of things I would like to do anyway.

    Anyway, now that I have a tail vise, I wouldn't be without one. I know many people have diverging opinions on that.

    I think that the positioning of the bench screws is very important. The closer they are to the bench top the better they will be in terms of effectiveness. If you look at all the old benches, they seem to be slightly closer to the top than they seem from your drawings. Given that there are no dimensions that may well be a bad guess on my part.

    On the sliding leg vise, I was going to significantly shorten the screw. My feeling being that I would be less likely to need full travel on this vise. I think that it would mainly be used in holding long boards and assisting the primary vise in holding wide boards for dovetailing. Of course this can only be done once and you can't put it back together once it has been done!

    All this advice should be taken with a grain of salt. You know best what you want to do.

    Otherwise, this is going to be one great workbench and I'm extremely jealous. I look forward to seeing continuing progress.

  14. #28
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    Australia
    Posts
    752

    Default

    Progress! Progress! Progress!

    Up to now all i've managed to do is rough cut the pieces to size with the circ.

    With the new woodfast in the shed... it's progress time.

    I thought I'd start on the legs... short and simple... before starting the top.

    The legs are 5 1/8" x 5 5/8" x 31" (arghhh i'm becoming amercian... )

    Next step
    - Clean the shed and empty the dusty
    - Shellac the new surfaces to stabilize moisture changes
    - Hand miter saw to cut the bottom flush and cut the tenon
    - Mortises with drill press and chisel but I might wait till I have the other components ready for sizes and vice lay out.
    My blog: ~ for the love of wood ~ - http://theloveofwood.blogspot.com/

  15. #29
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    Oshawa, Ont., Canada (I wish I was in Brissie)
    Posts
    331

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by BozInOz View Post
    The legs are 5 1/8" x 5 5/8" x 31" (arghhh i'm becoming amercian... )
    Nonsense!
    You're speaking in a language I can understand as taught to me by the nuns at St.Joachims primary school many moons ago......... and so far as I can tell you haven't overthrown a democratically elected Labor government through the use of a fake merchant bank, a Pakistani loan broker or a drunken old sot riding on the coat tails of the monarchy! (here endeth the conspiracy lesson)

  16. #30
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Location
    Blue Mountains
    Posts
    812

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by BozInOz View Post
    The legs are 5 1/8" x 5 5/8" x 31" (arghhh i'm becoming amercian... )
    I find myself using a combination of imperial and metric. I'll get a 2.1 metre length of 3 x 1" timber, for example. Doesn't confuse me at all, but depending on the age of the person I'm dealing with, it can be problematic!

    Sometimes, imperial measurements seem to make more sense.

    ajw

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