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Thread: Dogs Split Top

  1. #61
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    Default Tool Racks

    Perenial debate?

    Some love wells; others absolutely hate them as rubbish magnets!

    Some love under bench drawers and cupboards; others hate them for impeding clamping!

    IanW hangs his tools on the back of his work bench.

    Derek hangs them on a wall behind his bench.

    A mate has a "surgeons trolley" - his term - which he places beside his bench, or wheels around the house for other jobs.

    • its an "Elfa" unit from Howard Storage.
    • He made the top - 600x600x40 pine.
    • It wheels easy on castors.
    • four baskets of different sizes.
    • Power and large tools go in baskets,
    • Small in-use tools laid out like sugeons instruments on top.


    Works very well - its on my to do list!

    Cheers

    Graeme

    https://www.google.com/search?client...K0CB8X46XbHJM:

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  3. #62
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by GraemeCook View Post
    Perenial debate?

    A mate has a "surgeons trolley" - his term - which he places beside his bench, or wheels around the house for other jobs.

    • its an "Elfa" unit from Howard Storage.
    • He made the top - 600x600x40 pine.
    • It wheels easy on castors.
    • four baskets of different sizes.
    • Power and large tools go in baskets,
    • Small in-use tools laid out like sugeons instruments on top.


    Works very well - its on my to do list!

    Cheers

    Graeme
    That's the best idea yet, but only if it comes with assistants to hand me my tools on demand and take them away when I am done to be cleaned, sharpened and stored.
    I, for one, like Roman Numerals

  4. #63
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by GraemeCook View Post
    ...IanW hangs his tools on the back of his work bench.....
    Nope, Graeme, as I said, I tried the idea for about a week (well, maybe it took me a month to remove the rack ), but it certainly didn't last long. Some 'handy hints' you read in magazines or on forums turn out to be winners, others just don't work for me.

    'Tis indeed the perennial debate, because so much depends on your style of working & what you are making - I can have anything from just a single tool out, e.g., a jointer plane for squaring up some stock that is already in fairly good shape, to a slew of tools. One situation I commonly get myself into is having a half-dozen chisels out at once, when I'm dovetailing a wide drawer or carcase side with dovetails of varying sizes. Keeping all those sharp ends away from harming themselves or me requires paying attention! That's a time when it could be handy to have an assistant passing the one I want to me (handle-first, preferably ) & carefully laying down the one I've just finished using.

    Not sure I'd let the wood-nurse sharpen 'em for me, though. In my experience, 'surgically sharp' is far from good enough for woodworking tools.....

    Cheers,
    IW

  5. #64
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    Default Pictures Were Included

    Hi NewLou

    Pictures were included in the attachment to above post.

    Cheers

    Graeme

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    Just Do The Best You Can With What You HAve At The Time

  7. #66
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    Default Japanese Sharpness

    Quote Originally Posted by IanW View Post
    ......Not sure I'd let the wood-nurse sharpen 'em for me, though. In my experience, 'surgically sharp' is far from good enough for woodworking tools.....

    Cheers,

    Hi Ian

    Oops!

    Change subject; I have just returned from Japan and was again surprised by the definition of sharp.

    Was in a professional sharpeners small shop in a fish market - he said he did a five years apprenticeship, then "...ten more years before I am OK...". He absolutely rubbished western knife sharpening steels - "...should be called knife blunter. Why sharpen then bend edge..."

    He demonstrated by sharpening a Japanese utility knife, similar blade shape to German chef's knife, about 200 mm long, but different handle shape. Very high carbon centre laminate between two external laminates of soft stainless steel.
    • first on red/brown whetstone wheel, about 500 mm diameter and 150 mm thick,
    • then sequentially on five different whetstones of varying colours and grits.
    • whetstones were on a wooden plank above a wooden trough about 1200 x 600 x 300 deep. Water was 300 mm deep!
    • "...trough must be wood in case you drop blade...."
    • "....plenty water, mud no good...."


    He did no further honing, but demonstrated sharpness by running blade up fore-arm. Did not shave hairs, but he held up a bit of skin about 20 x 10 mm, that you could see through. Shiver.

    He then sharpened a "temple chisel" - extremely large, blade about 60 mm wide, 5 grooves in back, handle about a metre long and quite thick, and apparently used for paring. His technique was:
    • used tiny square to check that chisel edge was square and strait.
    • put texture colour line along back of edge.
    • two strokes only on whetstone to verify back was flat.
    • five polishing strokes on finest whetstone to put mirror on back.
    • then sharpening, five strokes on coursest whetstone, check edge, five more strokes, repeat until edge is "acute" - his word.
    • Then five strokes each on each of the other whetstones and a final single stroke on the back of the blade on the finest. Done.


    It was dangerously sharp; sliced through powlonia like butter.

    I was surprised at how gentle he was, virtually no pressure, and how acute the sharpening angle was;
    • perhaps 12 degrees for the knife, and sharpening about 15 mm of the blade. (25 degrees total)
    • Chisel was probably in low 20 degrees.
    • absolutely no secondary bevels.


    For me, a very new experience in sharpness. The journey continues.


    Cheers

    Graeme

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    Default

    Sounds like you had a great adventure Graeme

    Am hoping you start a thread on the sharpening forum and fascinated by your take on what you learnt throughout the trip

    Regards Lou
    Just Do The Best You Can With What You HAve At The Time

  9. #68
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    Quote Originally Posted by GraemeCook View Post
    Hi Ian

    He did no further honing, but demonstrated sharpness by running blade up fore-arm. Did not shave hairs, but he held up a bit of skin about 20 x 10 mm, that you could see through. Shiver.

    Cheers

    Graeme
    Crikey that is sharp.

    Wouldn't want to test it that way too often though.
    I, for one, like Roman Numerals

  10. #69
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    I'm really glad to see this thread progressing! I was on holiday's in Fiji when I got the update that it was active again. I'm really looking forward to seeing the finished product mate, You have inspired me to get cracking at my own mini work bench that has been in partial kit form for almost a year now. Christmas is around the corner and should give me a few sold days to get cracking on it.

    Jim.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jimbobtwoshoes View Post
    I'm really glad to see this thread progressing! I was on holiday's in Fiji when I got the update that it was active again. I'm really looking forward to seeing the finished product mate, You have inspired me to get cracking at my own mini work bench that has been in partial kit form for almost a year now. Christmas is around the corner and should give me a few sold days to get cracking on it.

    Jim.
    Thanks mate.

    For me personally it has been so good to get back into the shed and start working again, it meant that everything was back to normal.
    I hope you get the time to start again as well.

    I'll look out for your finished bench.
    I, for one, like Roman Numerals

  12. #71
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    Another weekend down and progress, not a lot but I will take as much as I can.

    We are into Mango Madness season up here which means the humidity is just oppressive as we wait for the wet season to start. What could be a better way to spend this time than working with hand tools in an un air conditioned garage

    I had to notch out another piece to go over the back leg tenons and decided to take the time to practice my sawing. Straight was not my strong suit, so I drew a heap of lines, pulled out my trusty saw and had at it. After the first 10 lines I was getting better, after the first 50 I was on target and going well. Practice does help a lot, who knew?? Then it was a matter o sizing everything up, making sure it was all straight and stick it all together.



    I am also really happy with the new boys in town, Luban numbers 5 and 6. I'm still a bit in the air about buying things from China but these planes are really pretty nice.



    And the top part 2, under pressure.



    As for the gap I have been giving it a lot of thought. Being as I designed this thing as a split top and sized everything accordingly, it is going to be a lot of work to cut a piece to fit that gap. I only have 50mm stock so would need to resaw it (by hand, did I mention mango madness season??) and fit it to the gap. Using the same ash as the rest of the top would look a bit out of place as it is so thin compared to the rest of the top. So I would rather have it made from Kwila like the legs. It's not impossible to do, I really just don't want to right now.

    I am going to leave the gap in place and just try and get the bench finished then worry about it later. I have listened to wiser members here and will not be using it to store stuff in. You are all right, it just leaves another way to damage things that I really don't need. IF the gap starts eating too many pencils and other things I can always fit a piece in later. It doesn't even need to be glued, it just needs to fill the gap.

    Anyway, it's late, I'm tired and need to work tomorrow. This week I will work on flattening the bottom of part two then attacking the top.

    Stand by for updates.
    I, for one, like Roman Numerals

  13. #72
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Dogs857 View Post
    Instead of working on my bench tonight I spent the entire time trying to fix my blade. So for now that jig is my best friend. Here endeth the lesson.
    I know the Rob Cosman video you mention and I was intrigued by removing a potentially non-essential contraption from my sharpening regime. All that fussing around bothered me so I followed the same path, ditching the jig and going for the freehand technique... What a mess. It didn't take me long to return to sharpening with a jig.

    It wasn't until I stumbled across a video of Carl Bilderback sharpening a chisel freehand with a technique that also kept his stone flat that I thought, another benefit to ditching that jig! I tried one more time and stuck with it a while longer. Yes, I made a mess of my stones and blade for a while but with practice I've got the technique down. I love that I no longer have to worry about wasting time with the jig. I'm not saying ditch the jig if it's working for you but maybe persistence and practice will get you there.

    Great job with your workbench. I've just taken delivery of some 140x140 Kwila for the undercarriage of my new bench and yours is turning out very similar to how mine is planned. Maybe I'll put up a WIP but it'll be slow going.


    Regards,

    Denim

  14. #73
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    Haha thanks mate.

    I'm not giving up on the idea all together, but for now I think I need to get a lot of other things weighed off before I try and become a hand sharpening wizard. I like that chisel video, it's certainly worth trying again some day.

    140 x 140 Kwila will certainly keep you busy. Wish I could have gotten some in that size, it would have saved a bit of time.

    For now I am moving along. I have the second part of the top finished and am fine tuning the fit on the back legs. I have a day off work planned this week so that I can flatten this top and take my time doing it. While waiting I have been getting the leg vice chop ready. It's actually lining up alright. Interestingly the new vice block that I got from Lake Eerie (thanks again fellas) was a touch higher than the old one, so I was going to have to plane a bit off to get it to fit. Just for fun I put the old block in that I had sized the notch for and tried the new screw. It works with no issues. Lake Eerie told me they loosen up the tolerances for humid areas, and that little bit of slack meant that the new screw fit the old block. So I pulled out the old screw and it fits the new block. I effectively have two working leg vice screws now. Not too sure what I will do with the spare one but it can go onto the shelf until I figure it out.

    I, for one, like Roman Numerals

  15. #74
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dogs857 View Post
    .....
    I am also really happy with the new boys in town, Luban numbers 5 and 6. I'm still a bit in the air about buying things from China but these planes are really pretty nice.



    ........
    Hi Dogs857

    Loving reports on your progress; and the shear weight of that bench top!

    I am a convert to Luban gear - 90% of Lie-Nielsen or Lee Valley quality at 50% of price. Luban blades are particularly good - A Chinese steel that is a copy of O1, I think. The only issue that I have had is that adjuster screw on the #4 plane is difficult to reach with hand on tote.

    As for overall comment on Chinese quality, I am not so sure. I have just returned from a week in China - what an eye openner!
    • Virtually all Apple products are made in China - any qualms about quality?
    • Mercedes Benz makes cars in China which are designated by the letter "L" after the model name - extended wheelbase because Chinese Mercedes owners have chauffeurs. When two Mercedes are parked together you can differentiate the Chinese from the German by the paint work - the Chinese paint job is better.
    • I visited a five story tool shop in Shanghai - amazing range of hand and electrical tools and workshop equipment. Included knock-offs of Festool and Mafell, and in retail shop fiddling they seemed as smooth as the the originals - I did not actually use them.


    My theory is that China is rapidly moving from being a junk producer, but that the buyers for western Big Chains are still bottom feeders, and simply don't care about their customers.


    Cheers

    Graeme

  16. #75
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    Quote Originally Posted by GraemeCook View Post
    My theory is that China is rapidly moving from being a junk producer, but that the buyers for western Big Chains are still bottom feeders, and simply don't care about their customers.
    John Economaki (of Bridge City Tool Works) posted on this some years ago.
    His take was that the Chinese will make to whatever quality the customer requires -- but that they also know that the US consumer doesn't return faulty tools costing less than $20. So in that price range it just sort of needs to work.
    From memory, John's example was drill bits -- typically only the 1/4" and 3/8" sizes get used, so the rest of the drills in a 20 piece kit only need to look like they are properly hardened (or TiN coated) drill bits.
    regards from Alberta, Canada

    ian

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