Thread: Dogs Split Top

Thanks for the advice fellas.

Graeme my reservations around buying from China are based more around economics rather than quality. I still feel very uneasy about how much the west has sold out to third world countries in the name of profits for share holders.

However that is a discussion for another time, and another forum. The fact is I have bought from China simply because it means I can rebuild my kit faster, and you are right the quality is certainly there.

Today was the big day. Took the day off, dropped number 1 at daycare and got stuck in.



I read someone on another forum boasting they could flatten a bench top in 15 minutes of solid work. Now I am no hand planing guru by any stretch, but this was done in one hit and in pretty short order and it took 1.5 hours. The HNT Jack plane is set for a pretty aggressive cut and really made short work of the high spots before the number 6 took over to flatten out and level it.



This was a lot less fun. Hand sawing the ends of the bench had knobs on it, bloody big knobs.

Lessons learnt:

I still can't saw straight, and being off by a degree can translate to a big difference in a top this thick. Add to that the fact that as the cut gets deeper there is less support on the waste side of the cut and the saw leans a little more and before you know it you are in trouble. One end of the bench is quite "wavy" to put it nicely, and the other (while being straighter) has a section that sticks out that couldn't be cut as the rest of the waste fell off around it. I am not going to mess with this too much, but trying to plane this down will take an age and be quite annoying. Time to find a friend with a belt sander.

That leads me into my next point. Doing things by hand is certainly the pure way, but it's also a lot of hard work. Especially in hardwood in the tropics. I have figured out that Tom Fidgen can get away with it because he lives in deep dark Canada where he probably has to worry about whether to wear a jumper or not in his shop to stop from freezing to death, or not being mauled by a Polar Bear if he goes outside. Me, I live in deepest darkest far North Queensland where you sweat just thinking about doing anything mildly aerobic, and the only creature to worry about outside is the Crocodiles and they stay in the water because they are not stupid enough to work wood by hand in the Tropics.

And lastly I have a bit of tear out in my bench top. I agonised over this and decided that I am happy with leaving it alone. I will give it a good sanding to take out the sharp points but won't be obsessively scraping it out. It's not a dining table after all, it's a workbench and the first chisel scar will undo all the hard work anyway. But it did get me to thinking, what do others do about this.

So the question for those reading along, would you remove the tear out from your workbench or just leave it be??

Tom Fidgen thinks Maple is a hardwood -- little does he know.

But flattening a bench to some extent comes down to your choice of tools. A cambered blade makes a big difference, as does a longer jointer like a #7.
But all of us make do with what we have.

If you can obtain a toothed blade for you HNT Jack or #6 cutting back the protrusion shouldn't be too time consuming.


as to the tear out -- if you take it out you bench will no longer be flat, so leave it.

Lookin great Dogs

YEah I get the sweat and the heat thing Try welding in 47degress OR just to spice it up in a concrete sleeper factory where they set the sleepers with steam OUCH! brings a tear to the eye ................almost

But nothing like hard work to keep you fit and healthy. Im choosing to explore the handtool pathway a lot deeper this time round just to help keep the fitness and activity up all the centenarians i've seen interviewed say the same thing Keep Movin n keep that sense of humor going!

My old man was a shearer and used to take me out to the shearing sheds hoping id get allergic to hard work and thus an education....................IT WORKED! BUT ive also come to learn the satisfaction of putting a few hard hours in like you described NICE!

That said I reckon you should get the tearout sorted Trust me at some stage you’ll look at it [if you don’t] and will have that If only I hadda moment also with all the humidity up there I reckon you’ll have to reflatten your bench a lot more than us down South so why not get your hand in from the getgo ……………… no rush it’s the journey that’s most important and all that Jazz

Also I think you’ll get that special level of satisfaction that comes from the learning process and making the adjustment to get it right both with the tearout and your sawcuts nothing like that 1^st mouthful from a coldie or a gloat amongst friends after getting it deadnuts spot on…………………………always a good feeling

Sincerely Lou

Originally Posted by Dogs857

......

This was a lot less fun. Hand sawing the ends of the bench had knobs on it, bloody big knobs.

Lessons learnt:

I still can't saw straight, and being off by a degree can translate to a big difference in a top this thick. Add to that the fact that as the cut gets deeper there is less support on the waste side of the cut and the saw leans a little more and before you know it you are in trouble. One end of the bench is quite "wavy" to put it nicely, and the other (while being straighter) has a section that sticks out that couldn't be cut as the rest of the waste fell off around it. I am not going to mess with this too much, but trying to plane this down will take an age and be quite annoying. Time to find a friend with a belt sander......

Hi Dogs857

Lots of us can saw like that! It can also be influenced by the sharpening of the saw; a tiny irregularity gets magnified in the cut.

A mate made a patio table about 15 years ago, top only about 70 mm thick, and had ends sawn like yours. His solution was to clamp a straight edge to the table top, then route the ends straight - taking about 3 mm off with each pass of the router. When we got to the bottom of the router bit we turned the table over and used a straight cutter bit with bearing. End result was great, but that table was bloody heavy to turn over.


Cheers

Graeme

You set yourself a task there, Dogs. It can be done, but cutting as close to the edge as you marked-out for yourself needs a sharp & well-set saw & a steady hand! I think you might've done a bit better if you'd sacrificed another 10mm on the end, to give the off-cut a bit more support. There are several possible 'fixes' rgat I can think of. If you have been put off trying to hand saw it a second time, and you know someone with a 14" Skilsaw, that'd be the easiest way to shave a few mm off the ends & neten them up. Attacking it with a low-angle jack plane would be about the best hand-tool approach a this stage, but how/where to hold it while you get at those ends will take some imagination. Having adjusted a few door bottoms in my time with hand planes, I know it's not all beer & skittles.

Something I'd consider would be a modification of Graeme's suggestion, i.e., use a router to make a tongue on each end, then bolt on end-caps. That will neaten it up nicely & more than replace the loss of length from cutting the tongues (which need only be 10mm deep). A couple of bolts in slightly over-sized holes will allow for plenty of cross-grain movement of the top - though maybe you don't need to worry so much about seasonal movement where you are - how much variation in RH through the year do you see?

Cheers,

Thanks fellas.

While a poor workman blames his tools I am not that poor workman. Well I may be a poor workman but I do realise that this was all me. Sawing, like anything else, is a skill and it's a skill that I am still building. I seem to have started at the wrong end for skill building though. I would imagine that starting with something in the 20-50mm range would be a good start, not 140mm thick and 600mm long. Still I learnt to surf by paddling out into a giant swell so deep ends tend to suit me.

Ian you are right, in an effort to save as much bench top as possible I have set myself up for a hard time from the off. I don't have access to anything up here to help fix it really and don't own a router or know of anyone here with one I could borrow. I could pick up a cheap circular saw and try again. It will get me most of the way through but if I screw that up as well then I am just taking more and more off the top. When I said a wave the cut is pretty straight along the top and about 2 inches down before it starts to deflect off. Time to stop and think, and drink, and think, and drink, and think.

After a bit of contemplation I have come to the following conclusion. I am not about to start a Youtube channel, I am not a professional, I am not writing books. I am a bloke in a shed building stuff because it brings me pleasure and I hope to get good enough to furnish my house with stuff that won't fall apart in a few weeks time. This is the very first thing I have ever built using only hand tools. To be honest I am chuffed that it has turned out this well so far. I can live with a little issue in the bench end. With a bit of sanding I can get this mostly square, and the rest I will call a design feature and move on. This along with other little things will help to show me how much I have hopefully improved with practice by the time my sons get interested in things and I can actually show them a thing or two.

I may have drunk too much in all my thinking but right now it seems like a good plan. A very good plan.

I will review in the morning, Johnny is calling me back for another think.

Nope, I think you've reached a sensible conclusion, with or without JW's help, Dogs. Indeed, it is 'just a bench', i.e., a tool for holding wood & stuff while you knock off all those bits that don't look like furniture, & not something intended for display in the living room. To do its job well, it has to be sturdy, reasonably flat, and include a few holding aids. I think you've managed to include those criteria in spades.

Definitely time to move on & keep developing your skills by making stuff that is meant to be 'fine woodwork'. Besides, not many of us stick with the first bench we make for the rest of our woodworking lives. Your new bench is far better than my first 'serious' effort, and by the time you outgrow this one, I reckon you'll be capable of building any bench that takes your fancy.....

Cheers,

Thanks Ian

In the cold light of day after a long shower and a slow start (I really shouldn't think that much on a school night) I still reckon it's the way to go. I have decided to pick up a random orbital sander as it will be more useful in the long run than a belt sander. I can chisel off the small piece I couldn't saw and then just smooth the rest off.

So next step is to chisel out the slot for the HNT tail vice, cut and fit the leg vice, drill some dog and holdfast holes, apply a finishing coat of oil and get this thing completed. It sounds really easy if you say it fast enough and with some conviction.

Stand by for updates.

Originally Posted by IanW

Nope, I think you've reached a sensible conclusion, with or without JW's help, Dogs. Indeed, it is 'just a bench', i.e., a tool for holding wood & stuff while you knock off all those bits that don't look like furniture, & not something intended for display in the living room. To do its job well, it has to be sturdy, reasonably flat, and include a few holding aids. I think you've managed to include those criteria in spades.

Definitely time to move on & keep developing your skills by making stuff that is meant to be 'fine woodwork'. Besides, not many of us stick with the first bench we make for the rest of our woodworking lives. Your new bench is far better than my first 'serious' effort, and by the time you outgrow this one, I reckon you'll be capable of building any bench that takes your fancy.....

Cheers,

Good Morning Dogs

Great response from Ian, Dogs. There's fifty years of experience and a heart in the right place, imbedded in his comments.

The end is probably the least important part of the bench. The top is critical - a flat reference surface - and yours has sturdiness in spades - all good.

Later, if the need arises, you can always revisit that end geometry. Many of us alter our benches during its life-time - add dog holes, add or change vises, add planing stops, fix dings, etc. Its a living entity!


Fair Winds

Graeme

Well I've been tinkering away over the last few weeks and here is where we are at.



Top is now pinned and the block for the vise screw is in place. I bought the 150mm vise from HNT but am now thinking the 100mm one would have been a better fit. I am losing an extra 8cm or so of bench space but it's plenty long enough and I can always sort out some kind of extension should I need it.



Dry run with the leg vise and everything is working well. I need to set and pin the through tenon then get onto installing the chain from AYS. This is the chop after shaping, it's still about 5mm tall so I will take that off once it is installed and re-do the chamfer along the top.After spending so much time with Kwila this NG Rosewood is an absolute bloody delight to work with. Planes easily, doesn't tear out by looking at it and will no doubt look splendid once it's oiled up.



It felt a bit wrong to spend all that time lovingly putting the top together and flattening it only to start chopping out a big part of it the next day. Still I guess if you want an inset vise then that is the cross you have to bear. I have to admit I was chopping this out with a mortise chisel and I actually said to myself "I wish I had a bloody router" then I opened the tool box and my router was sitting there staring at me . So much easier to do it with that tool. It took 3 sharpens but I got it all down to depth and things are looking up. Because I drilled out a lot of the waste first I just have to square up the right edge and plane it to depth then I can start on the cover plate.

Things are coming along nicely. It's my birthday soon and I would love to be using that day to put a finish on this thing. Well everything but the ends anyway, I need to buy a sander to attack those and all my extra money has gone into Christmas presents.

Tis the season.

Stand by for updates.

Finished, well pretty much finished.

I just need to adjust the chain on the leg vice so that things stay parallel, and then trim the top of the chop a little to match the height of the bench. Apart from those two little items we are complete.
I ended up re-sawing the right hand edge of the bench. I just took my best crosscut saw, gave myself 15mm or so and then took my time. It went so much better the second time around and was actually pretty square and straight. It's amazing what you can do by letting the saw do the work and taking your time instead of trying to force the issue because you are getting tired, sweaty and sore. I think trying to saw both ends by hand in the one afternoon was asking a bit much. Now I just had to clean up a little bit of saw marks which went so much faster with a random orbital sander (the only power tool used during the build). The end with the tail vice was left as originally cut.





A couple of coats of Danish oil and it was ready for work.

Thanks to everyone for their input and support. Time to move onto the next project, hopefully this one doesn't take 2 years

Originally Posted by Dogs857

Finished, well pretty much finished.......

Great work, Dogs; if you are like me it will take six months or so before you strat to realise that you actually got things right. Those micro blemished are your secret.

But it ain't finished yet; a bench is always a work-in-progress.

Enjoy !


Cheers

Graeme

Originally Posted by GraemeCook

...... a bench is always a work-in-progress......

Yep, too true, but after 30 years or so, you'll have it nearly kicked into shape.

As Graeme says, don't sweat the minor flaws or blemishes, just enjoy the pleasure of working at a nice, solid bench with some decent holding devices....

Cheers,

Very nice build Dogs and good write up.

I like the contrasting timbers and am a big fan of the "massive " look. Well done.

Regards
Paul