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  1. #16
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    This is about what I'm thinking ...



    The legs are not as inclined as I thought.

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  3. #17
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    the possibilities are endless for it Paul, ideas only limited by your blood alcohol level

    you could definitely angle the legs a bit more than that pic if it suits your needs (space etc) it would not make it worse, not too much or it would start to look a bit unbalanced to my eyes, a shelf or rail would tie it together well but can be made strong enough without it if you dont want one


    if you want to make it into a ridgy didge proper user bench with dog holes, vices and all the trimmings you would lose some of the character it has, because for a proper user bench (like a lot of people seem to be making over the past few years) ideally you want square edges etc etc, you know, for bench hooks, other functions and such, naturally you would be milling away much of the marks, you could keep some of them though but it wouldnt quite look like it does now


    i like oregon, douglas fir etc, its easy to work with, has a good look i reckon, smells good, has limited durability to the elements etc..i liked it when we built homes from too, although it can be overly knotty (dead knots the worse) sometimes, what i liked was it practically talks to you, as your walking around a roof you can tell by the creaks and groans if it going to let go, just enough ahead of time to give you a second or two to jump (instead of uncontrolled falling) and save breaking your neck

    before all the various forms of treated pine (LOSP etc etc) we used it for homes of course but back in the day it was also considered good for a time for outdoor pergolas etc (i would only really recommend it covered though now)..whilst it does resist twisting and cracking to some degree (depends on the piece, you lose a few to this) its was always meant to hold up well, but i find on many old structures that if left uncovered (exposed to rain) it rots, particularly if the moisture gets to the end grain it wont last long at all, as quick as a year or may take up to ten if partly sealed. most of the pergolas i've seen and even built myself from oregon in the old days lasted somewhere between 10-20 years ( a few are still going though), usually because they were neglected, not painted well which tends to happen to things after a few years, people loose interest in maintenance. it will survive outdoors if protected from rain and moisture


    so what i'm saying is , if you have to keep it outside in the rain then you would need to seal it in the best possible way, end grain included

    jarrah is ok for a bench but it is a bit hard and slippery, nothing wrong with oregon for a bench, yes it is soft, (easy to plane flat again) so dont hit it directly with your hammer! i read the old Japanese actually prefer this or timber similar because it gives great grip and i would agree. and for another tid bit of useless information i can tell you that there was a time when they used it for truck rear beds tops (trays) precisely for the extra grip and secondly to save weight. because it is soft, and in that application (trucks) goods/pallets can damage the surface too quickly so they used to laminate it with thin strips of oak inbetween, the idea was the hardwood strips provided the durability for the tray and the oregon provided the grip ..i'm making a rough ol bench atm coincidently with oregon i have laying about and are using some oak in-between, hopefully it will work out ok

    you could use that bench for all sorts, some folks nowadays in their big new homes (lovely homes but need imagination with decorating to add character) like the rustic look and would use it as a side table or hang a TV over it..or you could mount a BBQ in it out the back...the list is endless



    cheers
    chippy

  4. #18
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    That's an impressive looking bench, much more so since you've taken it apart and we can see what it's made of. I would consider flipping it so the top is flat, and has front and rear (skirts). Keep the pictures coming!

    Toby

  5. #19
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    Thanks. Yes you can tell that the worst wear is on the ends - as you say up into the end-grain. I'll have to think about what to do about 'feet' for it.

    This is the wood underneath the aged outer surface ...

    Paul


    Might be rethinking the whole 'outdoors' idea ... which would mean cleaning up the garage ... knew there'd be a catch.

  6. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by TobyC View Post
    That's an impressive looking bench, much more so since you've taken it apart and we can see what it's made of. I would consider flipping it so the top is flat, and has front and rear (skirts). Keep the pictures coming!

    Toby
    Thanks Toby ... can't take any credit for it ... other than putting it in a van

    I didn't have any grand plans for it ... but it would come apart easily ... and planes easily ... and would look nice cleaned up ...

    aargh.

    Paul

    And I'm supposed to be making a couple of nice gates for my mother for her birthday

  7. #21
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    OK - a little exploratory surgery.

    "You don't get nuthin' for nuthin' ... " (see pics of nails removed)

    Load of old cobblers if you ask me.

    I think I'll be taking the top of the rails down about 10mm.

    Cheers,
    Paul

  8. #22
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    10mm ... pffft. Nothing like it.

    Having had brief a communication with my brain, I will section out that hollow and glue in a refill.

    Enthusiastically using a scrub plane must be one of the more fun things you can do with your clothes on.

    The rails have been scrubbed, jacked and tried.

    Not sure whether to attack the sides or not. Think I'll sort out the top and see what I think then. They could always go through the (big. old.) thicknesser.

    Cheers,
    Paul

  9. #23
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    The stories that bench could tell!

    I love old wood with character, that thing is beautiful.

    What did your irons look like afterwards? Even when you pull the nails there is rust left behind in the holes. (And there's always that one you didn't see)

    Toby

  10. #24
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    There were two nails I found when I started planing - but they weren't a problem fortunately - I just kinda bumped or felt them.

    The irons weren't super-precious to start with, and the oregon is pretty easy planing. I've got quite a few planes to choose from, so I went with the #5 with the brazed repair and one of my #7 size woodies. That one I got very early on and has always planed like it's motorised

    When I was contemplating what saw to use to crosscut the big beam out front I had a small brain spasm and made a video comparing eight saws (both rip and crosscut) in crosscutting the bench rail which is 11" x 3". I haven't touched any of them with a file - they are all as received. The first D12 crosscut I use obviously isn't quite as sharp as I thought it was ... and no points for my sawing technique.

    Cheers,
    Paul

    https://vimeo.com/48680956

  11. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by pmcgee View Post
    10mm ... pffft. Nothing like it.

    Having had brief a communication with my brain, I will section out that hollow and glue in a refill.

    Enthusiastically using a scrub plane must be one of the more fun things you can do with your clothes on.

    The rails have been scrubbed, jacked and tried.

    Not sure whether to attack the sides or not. Think I'll sort out the top and see what I think then. They could always go through the (big. old.) thicknesser.

    Cheers,
    Paul

    your missing all the fun if you put it through the thicknesser, it doesnt get any easier than planning this stuff, do the lot by hand

    of course you will do whatever you end up doing and where your imagination takes you, nothing wrong with that, but its prob a good idea to make some decisions about what you want the bench to do first, what level of accuracy must it have in the end. its much easier to to do the work now than go over it again later, if its even possible later

    if the bench will be used for a high level of work then all pieces can be taken apart now and milled to size (square) then built back up, easier than tackling it later

    if character and a ruff ol bench is the target then you could leave it assembled and run a sander over the surfaces to the touch, to take off splinters (hard to use a plane due to the bolts etc)

    if you want a both (character and some level of accuracy), then its a bit more work imo to leave it partly constructed, thats to say i think its easier to dismantle to plane all the members first, false economy to leave it partly assembled.

    if choosing to leave assembled (for whatever reason- low hopes of it going back together the same etc) then it looks like you need to pick the lowest point on the top (after any patch block inserts have been glued in) and begin your levels from there, the front and back rail want to be sighted (like winding sticks) the same, your infill pieces inserted, then perhaps you could use the string line trick from corner to corner to get accurate levels, after that a #7 or 8 plane across the whole top
    ------------

    that video; dear lord Paul! that was both amazing and one of the most excruciating painful things i have ever seen (it hurt my ears too). please, please buy a file and sharpen some saws, i assure you that you will love the difference, like that plane you described as motorised and cutting like butter, so to will a sharp saw, ten times better than what you are now, fair dinkum!


    how many saws do you have now? i'm guessing a hundred or so. why the comparison using all those rip saws, on a crosscut piece? i would have thought you would have enough crosscut saws to compare?

    its going to sound like i'm nagging or pickin on ya, i'm not..but just a bit worried about safety...regardless of what the books or videos tell ya about how to start a saw and i havnt ever seen any that mention this...but you dont need to have your finger/thumb/knuckle down at the tooth level to start a saw with good results...consider it a bit like different folks methods of holding a pool cue, sure the books or many instructors will tell you the same way to hold the cue but it doesnt mean other ways are wrong

    its near impossible for me to discribe in writing where and how i mean to place your fingers/knuckles but it may be good enough to suggest that the bigger the tooth, e.g. rip saws with 4 or 5 ppi, the further up the blade you should place your guiding finger or knuckle, the idea being to keep them clear of the teeth should the blade jump about, and i notice the blade does a lot of jumping in your vid, i thought it was going to be a gory blood video for a short time there! i dont think your blades are that sharp though hehe...as you gain more experience your finger/knuckle can get lower and closer to the teeth for a tad more control but normaly that extra experience will offset the need, i realise this in contrary to what those experienced/notable people in the videos or books say but i'm talking from some experience...i just want ya to keep all your fingers is all, i've had and seen some dam nasty injuries from hand saws, particularly rip saws


    cheers
    chippy

  12. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by pmcgee View Post
    The legs are not as inclined as I thought.
    Be tactful, maybe you can talk them into leaning your way.
    We don't know how lucky we are......

  13. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by TobyC View Post
    The stories that bench could tell!
    I love old wood with character, that thing is beautiful.

    What did your irons look like afterwards? Even when you pull the nails there is rust left behind in the holes. (And there's always that one you didn't see)

    Toby
    It's been raining today, so I have only covered up the 'bench' and sawn the big beam I had out front in two and brought them around the the back.

    As a background to this comment, I started typing and it ended up being a post that 'belonged' in FF's sharpening thread, so if you're interested:
    https://www.woodworkforums.com/f127/s...ml#post1546604

    I just thought I would post up the planes, blades and oilstones that I have used on the oregon bench. It's pretty basic stuff and I am certain was not troubled by the (empty) nail-holes. A few times I have thought that I have chopped through something metallic 'cos there'd be a little bright dot in the wood I've just planed, but brushing at it with your hand it disappears, and might have just been a flake of metal? I might have something to do with those tiny little tacks that were in a lot of the wood - I definitely knew it the times that the edge of the plane sopped against a hidden nail, and when the blade stopped against one just as the momentum was gone on a stroke.

    Obviously I didn't want to use a bedrock or an infill plane, or a hock or ray iles blade - so I've used a #40 and a #40-1/2, a stanley #5 that has been braze repaired, and an old woodie with an Alex Mathieson taper blade. I didn't actually even think of sharpening them before using them - I thought they would be in a workable condition already. Mind you it would have been surely at least three months since I've last picked one of them up.

    I did resharpen the taper blade for the last few passes on the second rail - because it occurred to me that I should have - so it looks a bit better now than most of the time I was using it.

    Cheers,
    Paul

  14. #28
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    Quote:
    Originally Posted by pmcgee
    The legs are not as inclined as I thought.

    Quote Originally Posted by seanz View Post
    Be tactful, maybe you can talk them into leaning your way.

  15. #29
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    Hi Chippy.

    First thing of all, I appreciate your feedback. Must be like a commercial
    driver sitting in the passenger seat with a P-plater driving, huh?

    Secondly re: "it hurt my ears" ... are you saying my voice sounds as stupid
    to you as it does to me?

    As I said, I'm very happy for your feedback. I'll look at the video and
    the saws again much more closely and get back to you. It was a bit of a spur
    of the moment idea - and in selecting the saws I was looking for some
    interesting variation. I didn't go through all the 26"+ disstons for
    example, but I'm pretty sure I don't have a 4 or 5 point crosscut saw.

    The crosscut D12 came together with the D12 ripsaw (which my current
    impression is that it - the ripsaw - is very sharp) and I had thought that it
    was a good sharp saw.

    Test cutting a lot of pieces with a lot of saws here a month or so ago, I had
    come to the conclusion that often a ripsaw is the fastest way to
    make a crosscut. Even for the same point size if I recall correctly. It was
    only on some greenish wood I cut - a bay tree limb for example - that a rip
    would jar and jam against the fibres of the grain. So I was testing/showing
    that idea partly. In the end the saw I liked the best for the job was the
    old english saw filed 5-1/2 rip with roughly speaking 5 or 8 degrees rake and a
    bit of fleam to the teeth. It felt very fluid in cutting to me, whereas that
    Atkins with zero rake wouldn't work full-stop ... and the 4 point rip and the
    other 5-1/2 (D12) caught a little at the fibres cutting crossgrain like that.

    Most of the crosscut saws I have are panel saw size I'm pretty sure, which I
    didn't consider selecting for the video. Maybe I'll have to do a follow-up
    and annoy you some more

    I think I have adopted an elliptical sawing style - pulling back at a higher angle than the forward cut. I have no idea if that is good, bad or indifferent.

    Finally - do you like the #12? Does it look unusually flexible to you? I like it very very much, but it works very slowly in this application.

    Thanks again,
    Paul.

  16. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by pmcgee View Post
    Hi Chippy.

    First thing of all, I appreciate your feedback. Must be like a commercial
    driver sitting in the passenger seat with a P-plater driving, huh?

    Secondly re: "it hurt my ears" ... are you saying my voice sounds as stupid
    to you as it does to me?
    LOL no i wasnt referring to your voice, we all sound stupid hearing our own recorded voice played back

    its the sound of the saws i was referring to, horrible! (gave me shudders)
    Quote Originally Posted by pmcgee View Post
    As I said, I'm very happy for your feedback. I'll look at the video and
    the saws again much more closely and get back to you. It was a bit of a spur
    of the moment idea - and in selecting the saws I was looking for some
    interesting variation. I didn't go through all the 26"+ disstons for
    example, but I'm pretty sure I don't have a 4 or 5 point crosscut saw.
    a 6 is about a course a CC as you would ever go or ever find actually. a 7 is about as course as anyone would normally need in their kit, i like 7's an 8s for general work, finer tpi/ppi for smaller dimensioned timber or if a finer finish is needed
    Quote Originally Posted by pmcgee View Post
    The crosscut D12 came together with the D12 ripsaw (which my current
    impression is that it - the ripsaw - is very sharp) and I had thought that it
    was a good sharp saw.

    Test cutting a lot of pieces with a lot of saws here a month or so ago, I had
    come to the conclusion that often a ripsaw is the fastest way to
    make a crosscut. Even for the same point size if I recall correctly. It was
    only on some greenish wood I cut - a bay tree limb for example - that a rip
    would jar and jam against the fibres of the grain. So I was testing/showing
    that idea partly. In the end the saw I liked the best for the job was the
    old english saw filed 5-1/2 rip with roughly speaking 5 or 8 degrees rake and a
    bit of fleam to the teeth. It felt very fluid in cutting to me, whereas that
    Atkins with zero rake wouldn't work full-stop ... and the 4 point rip and the
    other 5-1/2 (D12) caught a little at the fibres cutting crossgrain like that.
    i wouldnt rely to much on your previous tests, without having properly sharpened the saws the tests arnt giving you the correct feedback, a good CC is going to cut quicker and nicer than a rip in a CC application

    you liked the 5 1/2 english 'rip' the best; you seemed most comfy with that one too, once you put fleam on it, its a crosscut though eh
    the zero rake Atkins is going to be difficult for a beginner to get going when used as it should be (along the grain) so no surprise it gave you trouble here...a bit of practise with it ripping, in a situation where you can get your body in a good stance and the work at the right height and it will tear through the timber so fast you'll think why bother with a machine
    Quote Originally Posted by pmcgee View Post

    Most of the crosscut saws I have are panel saw size I'm pretty sure, which I
    didn't consider selecting for the video. Maybe I'll have to do a follow-up
    and annoy you some more

    last bit made me laugh re the panel saws, depending on their length at this stage they would work as well as any other, your not using the full length of the blades anyway much of the time
    Quote Originally Posted by pmcgee View Post
    I think I have adopted an elliptical sawing style - pulling back at a higher angle than the forward cut. I have no idea if that is good, bad or indifferent.
    i didnt look too closely or worry much about your action since you were limited to the work piece being where it was and were cutting the offcut to the left, except to notice that you were using a double hand grip when a single would do fine (tiny cuts) , with offcut to left it can be awkward to place your hands otherwise i thought perhaps you were a bit fatigued and also trying to cut down on the back flapping of the saw (sneaky!) as you draw back on the saw, the flapping was hard on the ears too i must say thats just an indicator your body , arms etc arnt in line properly, a bit of practise will solve that, also a sharp CC saw will allow you to not have to work so hard and also you will not feel the need so much for the double grip, you'll be more relaxed and let the saw glide through and cut with less effort (it will sound better too and all the dogs in the neighboured will stop barking as well )

    Quote Originally Posted by pmcgee View Post
    Finally - do you like the #12? Does it look unusually flexible to you? I like it very very much, but it works very slowly in this application.

    Thanks again,
    Paul.
    nah, the #12 is fine, maybe its lost a bit of saw plate though, the flex/whip is fine/normal, most of my fine gauge plate saws will whip something like that (and ring) so there nothing wrong with that. it doesn't look like a good fit for you though (how long is it ?!), i cant see your whole arm or body but it looks too long for your arms from what i could see, trouble is its not like you can go down the shop and buy one to custom fit you so naturally you have to make do, its alway going to hinder using it just right (perfect) though. 12 ppi is always going to cut slower so i wouldnt worry about that, you use it for the finish it leaves, lovely



    cheers
    chippy

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