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  1. #61
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    Default Another good reason to like holdfasts

    The next thing I am doing is milling some redgum to size for the endcaps, shoulder vise arm and the benchdog strip for the tailvise.

    For this I need the jointer. I bluntened the blades on the ironbark for the top and have been wanting to put in the spiral cutter head I bought a couple of years ago, but had not gotten around to it yet.

    The bench build will be continued when the cutterhead is changed, which will not be too long - I have already pulled the old one out and hope to get the new one in tomorrow. I just ran out of daylight.

    A couple of holdfasts in my temporary workbench and some scraps of timber proved to be a good way to hold the old cutterhead to facilitate removal of the bearings. A timely reminder to drill some holdfast holes in the new bench.

    20180425_171838.jpg
    I got sick of sitting around doing nothing - so I took up meditation.

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  3. #62
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    Coming along very well indeed Doug

    Quote Originally Posted by doug3030 View Post
    100+ year-old Ironbark will make a very solid benchtop, I am sure but it is sure a problem to drill it. Have a look at what happens when you drill into it just about half the depth of the cutting head.

    Attachment 433953

    That's a Colt Maxicut bit - not some cheap carbatec thing.
    Yeah, Aussie timbers defeat quite a few American and European tools. However, I only get the problem you had when I am not using dust extraction, and I hate to think how many holes I've drilled in hardwood with Colt Forstners - let's just say many hundreds. I believe the extraction does two things - by removing the chips it prevents a heat build up which is what packs the chips together, and it also keeps air flowing over the bit, which prevents heat build up which is what packs the chips together.

    I have even had that happen in pussy woods like Douglas Fir and Pine, without DE. It may also be a function of the smaller bits (say <20mm) where the ejection "slots" are smaller - I'll have to check that.

    It means you have to clamp the job whilst drilling, unless you have a spectacular amount of hands, but overall it will be quicker and shouldn't burn the walls of the hole either. Try it, you'll like it!
    Regards, FenceFurniture

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  4. #63
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    Corrr, you'll enjoy that spiral head!

    Quote Originally Posted by FenceFurniture View Post
    It may also be a function of the smaller bits (say <20mm) where the ejection "slots" are smaller - I'll have to check that.
    As I thought. On a 19mm Forstner there is ~8.5mm gap across the circumference, but on a 32mm bit there is a ~13.5mm gap. Furthermore, the shafts of the forstners are all the same size so that means on a bigger bit the ejection slots are much deeper as well. (edit for clarity: because the ejection slots go right to the shaft from the circumference).

    O'course there is more timber being chipped up with a bigger bit, but I can't recall any of the larger bits ever jamming up, but I've had plenty of the smaller ones do it when I'm away from the DP (and therefore away from DE).
    Regards, FenceFurniture

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  5. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by FenceFurniture View Post
    Corrr, you'll enjoy that spiral head!
    I have already been enjoying the spiral head on the thicknesser.

    Quote Originally Posted by FenceFurniture View Post
    As I thought. On a 19mm Forstner there is ~8.5mm gap across the circumference, but on a 32mm bit there is a ~13.5mm gap. Furthermore, the shafts of the forstners are all the same size so that means on a bigger bit the ejection slots are much deeper as well. (edit for clarity: because the ejection slots go right to the shaft from the circumference).

    O'course there is more timber being chipped up with a bigger bit, but I can't recall any of the larger bits ever jamming up, but I've had plenty of the smaller ones do it when I'm away from the DP (and therefore away from DE).
    Drilling out the larger diameter parts of the holes to recess the nuts and washers was no problem. It was just the 5/8" bit that was clogging up. I'm not sure how dust extraction would have overcome this. Pointing the compressor nozzle straight into the hole as it was being drilled would not clear the chips and I seriously doubt that any dust extractor could have pulled out more air than the compressor was pushing in.
    I got sick of sitting around doing nothing - so I took up meditation.

  6. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by doug3030 View Post
    Pointing the compressor nozzle straight into the hole as it was being drilled would not clear the chips and I seriously doubt that any dust extractor could have pulled out more air than the compressor was pushing in.
    Ah, I hadn't quite twigged to that bit. What about the rpm? Would slowing it down help? And perhaps less downwards pressure?
    Regards, FenceFurniture

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  7. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by FenceFurniture View Post
    What about the rpm? Would slowing it down help? And perhaps less downwards pressure?
    I can't remember the speed it was set to exactly but it was not all that fast. I had not put the speed back up after reducing it for the larger forstner bit used to cut the nut and washer recesses. Leaving it set at the same speed made sense as I wanted to leave the workpiece clamped down and change the forstner bit to ensure the holes remained concentric and I did not want to keep changing speed each time I changed bits. I had resolved to stick with the slow speed the whole way.

    Downwards pressure really was not much of an issue as I had really only started to press when the bit stopped cutting and I would withdraw it. Slowing down the feed rate did not have any real impact either. It just meant it took half a second longer to get to the same depth where the bit stopped cutting.
    I got sick of sitting around doing nothing - so I took up meditation.

  8. #67
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    The good news is the jointer is back together with the helical cutterhead installed, all fully adjusted and cutting through knotted redgum like a hot knife through butter.

    20180426_160431.jpeg

    The bad news is I was told this morning that the house we are renting has been sold. We were hoping it would be bought by an investor so we could stay but that is not the case.

    The hunt is now on for a new shed with enough space and enough power. Not sure how much more I will get done on the workbench before we move. Just when I had some real momentum going.

    Cheers

    Doug
    I got sick of sitting around doing nothing - so I took up meditation.

  9. #68
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    Quote Originally Posted by doug3030 View Post
    The good news is the jointer is back together with the helical cutterhead installed, all fully adjusted and cutting through knotted redgum like a hot knife through butter.

    20180426_160431.jpeg

    The bad news is I was told this morning that the house we are renting has been sold. We were hoping it would be bought by an investor so we could stay but that is not the case.

    The hunt is now on for a new shed with enough space and enough power. Not sure how much more I will get done on the workbench before we move. Just when I had some real momentum going.

    Cheers

    Doug
    That's fantastic news about the helical cutter.
    That's crap news for the bench and now having to pack up and move.
    Hope you find something soon and the move goes easily.

    Cheers Matt

  10. #69
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    Hi Doug3030.
    I have Colt and Vermont America foster bit sets along with the cheap Chinese sets and the common thread is that they all work fine in softer wood such as pine, silky oat, Mertyle or even Tas black wood, but when I drill aged Australian building timbers I run into trouble to the extent that I have used a Bimetal holesaw to drill an angular ring into the wood stopping at the desired depth and resorting to a mortice chisel to finish the hole to almost the final depth then flattered the bottom of the hole with either a fostener bit or a home made boring bar and on a couple of occasions an old expansive bit in a brace. Result was OK but not perfect or pretty. I suspect your problem might just be the timber packing into the flutes. Try a 2" nail driven into a section of timber, drill 1/8 " then clear the flutes and drill again. All the best. Jeff

  11. #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by labrat View Post
    I suspect your problem might just be the timber packing into the flutes.
    Thanks for the input Jeff. I think you have a good grasp of the problem.

    It seems to be a problem on the smaller diameter bits. That means it will be an issue when I drill the holdfast/wonderdog holes (3/4")

    I was thinking of starting the holdfast holes with the forstner bit to get a nice clean entry then continuing through with a spade bit. I might have to experiment with an offcut.

    The good thing about it is that in that timber the holdfast holes should hold their shape well and not go oval for a couple of hundred years.
    I got sick of sitting around doing nothing - so I took up meditation.

  12. #71
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    I have some Ironbark here that I will do a test with. It is fairly new though. Today I happened to drill some nasty 30 year old palings (red, and hard, and 2x stacked up to 22mm thick). The Colt forstners were 22mm and 30mm. No packing the flutes problem using DE. I know that 22mm is 6mm bigger than 5/8", and I will do some other tests tomorrow if I get a chance.

    I could hold the business end of the bits straight after - i.e. not hot, just warm.
    Regards, FenceFurniture

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  13. #72
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    Welcome back to my workbench build everyone.

    Since I last posted, I have moved house/shed (June 2018) and set the workbench half-finished up in the new shed. Trestles and the planks for the top. It has made a useful work surface which I have used for all sorts of projects for over a year in the new house, but the time has come to work on finishing the bench instead of "working on the bench".

    According to the plans, the next thing to do is to glue up the long components of the benchtop. But the plan does not include holdfast holes and I want them. I figured it will be easier to drill them now because it will be easier to put the individual planks on the drill press than try to put the whole benchtop up there.

    20190807_161914.jpg

    You may remember that I had some trouble with the Ironbark gumming up the Colt forstner bits last time I was working on the bench. This was still a thing, but not to the same extent. The 3/4" bit is just a bit bigger than the one that was causing the problems. Something else that may have helped is that last time I was putting the bit into the chuck on the drill; this time I removed the chuck and inserted the 2-morse taper accessory which holds the "no slip" shaft of the colt bits directly. I did this because I had a LOT of drilling to do so it was worth the effort and I would need it so the I could use the extension bar later on (more on that in a later post). The morse taper accessory also allowed me to drill to the full depth of the quill travel. That allowed me to drill all the way through the bench top without having to move the table up.

    So I went ahead and drilled out the holdfast holes to the pattern I designed - 13 holes in all - no point in turning the bench-top into swiss cheese. A lot of thought went into the hole pattern, which will be explained as the build continues.
    I got sick of sitting around doing nothing - so I took up meditation.

  14. #73
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    In the previous post I mentioned needing the drilling extension bar.

    The shoulder-vise spacer block needed a 200 mm a hole drilling through it in the end-grain direction. The timber I have chosen for this spacer block is a special one. All the timber in the benchtop is recycled old-growth eucalypt, most of it with a background story. The Shoulder Vise spacer block is made from unidentified species of Eucalypt which was part of a historical jetty in Darwin which was bombed by the Japanese in WW2. This was given to me by Forum Member Dave-in_oz at my Open Shed day last year. Thanks heaps for that Dave. As an Army Veteran I am proud to have that historical piece of timber as a very visual part of my workbench where it will be preserved forever.

    Of course this piece of ancient timber is as hard as (insert your favorite simile) so I was not looking forward to drilling through it.

    20190807_174902.jpg

    Now, while the extension bar is longer than the block, the aim is to drill in from both sides and meet in the middle.The collar on the extension bar that holds the bit is only about 2mm smaller than the hole being drilled so I know it will be necessary to pull the bit out often when the hole gets to the depth of the collar in order to clear the sawdust, which will mean lowering and raising the table on the drill press because the quill travel will not be long enough to get anywhere near half way on this job. I set up clamping system to hold everything in place securely.

    20190807_175452.jpg

    It turned out to be a bit easier than I thought because it was endgrain drilling which meant it was cutting the fibres very short - almost powder-like - and I could blow a lot of it out of the hole with the compressor while still drilling. I still had to be careful not to let eh sawdust compact on top of the bit otherwise it would be very difficult to pull out. It was a fairly slow process but things were going quite well, so I went well past half way just to see how rar that setup would be able to go in that hard timber. I was fairly confident I could have made it all the way through but it eventually became too much of an effort to extract the dust compared to the alternative. But I was already this deep:

    20190807_183231.jpg 20190807_183223.jpg

    At that point I drilled in from the other side. When th ebit broke through into the other end of the hole the bit holder came free from the morse taper and the whole bit/extension bar assembly dropped to the bottom of the hole. All of the lifting and dropping of the table must have slowly loosened the morse taper connection and when there was nothing holding it up - down it went. Straight away that told me without even looking that the two holes had met up damn near perfectly.

    Very happy with that result.
    I got sick of sitting around doing nothing - so I took up meditation.

  15. #74
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    Anyway, when I turned off the lights this evening there had been some visible progress.

    20190807_190040.jpg20190807_190034.jpg

    There's still some work to do before I glue the sections together. Rectangular dogholes need to be cut, holes need to be drilled for the bolts to hold the endcaps on and I need to make the fixed jaw for the tailvise.

    I won't be cutting the ends square until the boards are all glued up because I will be running the top through the thicknesser and the ragged ends will take any snipe before they are chopped off.

    I put a lot of the pieces in place (sort of) for a progress picture, the endcaps an dshoulder vise arm are not shown as they are sitting on the back deck with wet epoxy filling in some minor cracks on faces which will not show anyway. The damn epoxy has been wet since last Friday

    I have no idea why it is drying so slowly. I measured the ratios with the kitchen scales and it was blended until it was an even color including the black dye.The day I did the epoxying was cold but within the temperature range fo rthe product so I am at a los sto know why it is still soft.. I will probably have to clean it all off and mix up another batch and see how it goes.

    20190807_191657.jpg
    I got sick of sitting around doing nothing - so I took up meditation.

  16. #75
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    Quote Originally Posted by doug3030 View Post
    I removed the chuck and inserted the 2-morse taper accessory which holds the "no slip" shaft of the colt bits directly. I did this because I had a LOT of drilling to do so it was worth the effort and I would need it so the I could use the extension bar later on (more on that in a later post). The morse taper accessory also allowed me to drill to the full depth of the quill travel.
    I knew there was a reason for those morse taper inserts - just never could figure out what......
    Regards, FenceFurniture

    COLT DRILLS GROUP BUY
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