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  1. #61
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    Reckon you can stop that tearout with a decent knife line (or clamp a sacrificial block to the edge).

    Tip: If you look at your pics in Windows "Photo and Fax viewer", rotate them until correct and then close, they will stay rotated (even when you upload them).



    EDIT: Maybe not use the plunge - just lock it down for each successive depth of cut, and use the depth stop on the Triton.
    Regards, FenceFurniture

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    But wait there is more to the story

  4. #63
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    Well come on then. I'm sitting here refreshing the screen every 30 seconds, so engrossed am I.



    or not.
    Regards, FenceFurniture

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  5. #64
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    Lucky you can refresh.. the internet has crapped out twice here.
    Got your tip re photos however as you are sitting there waiting:

    Attempt 2.

    IMG_1072[1].jpgIMG_1070[1].jpgIMG_1071[1].jpg

    Router 1 ( Bosch + spiral): The climb cut at the bottom wasn't a climb cut and the tear out occurred- ok so keep practicing this and try harder next time
    Router 2 (triton plus "pattern bit" ) the depth gauge knob on the triton vibrated loose and caused most of the problem. Also I hadn't sorted out the plunge issues so i only did one side. And bugger it the bit on slowing down hit the other side and mucked up the template.

    Stop. Cup of tea. Walk. Read the instructions to the triton router, Fix the template.

    However on attempt number 3 it got a bit more exciting as there were sparks and this was the result:
    IMG_1073[1].jpgIMG_1075[1].jpgIMG_1074[1].jpgIMG_1059[1].jpg

    Yes that is a hole through the timber into the bottom face of the bench. Notice the colour of the top of the router bit and the missing screw.

    BUGGER

  6. #65
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    Jaysus. What are you like with a chisel & mallet Berg-o-meister?

    What brand router bit? New or old (i.e. sharp or not so)?

    How deep were the passes?
    Regards, FenceFurniture

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    Quote Originally Posted by FenceFurniture View Post
    Jaysus. What are you like with a chisel & mallet Berg-o-meister?
    We shall find out when I have to do the mortises. But yes for this job i may just be better off using them.

    Quote Originally Posted by FenceFurniture View Post
    What brand router bit? New or old (i.e. sharp or not so)?
    triton: New ex-china bit via Yagoona, sharp. 1/4" shank, 1/2 inch cutter, 1/2 inch bearing. The retaining collar was the last one in the box so someones buying them!
    Bosch: ex auburn home brand spiral sold as a set of 3. Not previously used - sharp


    Quote Originally Posted by FenceFurniture View Post
    How deep were the passes?
    The recommendation prior to router one was to use the knife ( need to do this next time but was trying to sort out the other stuff) as you suggest and then climb cut at bottom right and top left. 19mm passes straight down the middle of the template with the spiral bit. There was a template guide insitu.
    Router 2 as it is bit with a bearing on the top this was a full depth pass along the template once most of the waste was removed.

    I have a rough idea what went wrong, mostly with the operator decisions and errors and the use of the triton router. Luckily no injury occured when the grub screw took off.

  8. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pac man View Post
    The retaining collar was the last one in the box so someones buying them!
    Yeah....the same poor bastard who is a slow learner.


    Quote Originally Posted by Pac man View Post
    19mm passes straight down the middle of the template with the spiral bit.
    YIKES! I'd go no more than 6mm deep in each pass which will leave 1mm left for a nice smooth pass at the end. I think a 19mm deep pass straight into the guts of it is asking way too much (esp of chinese bits)
    Regards, FenceFurniture

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  9. #68
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pac man View Post
    ...... Notice the colour of the top of the router bit and the missing screw.

    BUGGER

    My thoughts exactly, Bugger.

  10. #69
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    What went wrong and what did i observe on closer inspection? ( and things you should remember to do or not do)

    I was somewhat hesitant about performing these operations with a router and to some extent fatigue had a role. I have used the Bosch in the hand held mode before but the triton mainly in the table. Putting better checks in place would have been advantageous.

    Router 1.Bosch
    The template bearing guide screws were loosish - finger tight. I don't think this played a part in the problem but is not recommended.
    Plunge, lock down, off you go and enter the timber on this one was no drama as i had done this before . However the climb cuts for me were an issue as i was hesitant and on reflection not doing them as per the Benchcrafted video. However the tear out was only on the bottom so perhaps the backer instead of the climb cut and use the knife.


    Router 2. Triton
    Inexperience with the plunge mechanism. Both the wheel and the flip lock mechanism and trying to use both at the same time. Although this initially caused the problem in the end there were some more significant factors at play.

    Inexperience with the plunge mechanism raising the router to full height when tightening the bit to engage the stop lock. I recall tightening the bit with the supplied spanner but the bit was not to the full height. This may have had some impact on how tight the bit was in the collet. What confirms this - in the last attempt when the sparks rand I stopped and raised the router both the bit and collet were in the hole. I was bloody lucky that the timber was the only one to sustain damage. Since cut one I think the bit was slipping - so if in doubt check the bit including how tight

    Router bit 2: 1/2 inch shank template bit.
    When i bought this bit it was three separate components. The router bit had the bearing and lock fitted before i left the shop tightened ( I assumed as i saw it occur) with an Allen key. The key things here for me were 1. It does not take much time to put an Allen key to a grub screw to check its tight. 2. Stop being tight and buying cheaper bits for one off jobs. Buy cheap buy twice as my friend would say.

    I dont know how the grub screw came out. Attempt 1 and 2 show the fine ledge left at the top. My thoughts are given that the lock and router bit were the same diameter it could be possible that the lock and hence the grub screw were rubbing at speed along the template which may have had some effect but i will never really know.

    Collet: NOS that i have had for some time a Gifkins reducer. Never had a problem with its older twin.

    So its a new template to be made, a new brand name template bit to be purchased and some more experience before i try the backup. Attempt number 4 will happen but maybe not this weekend.

    Its on to to the straight routing of the end cap i feel to get the experience levels up before attempt 4.

  11. #70
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    I might have missed it but how fast is the speed of the router.

    Normally(if this can be said) to burn a bit the speed is too fast, or pushing too hard.

  12. #71
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    Quote Originally Posted by FenceFurniture View Post
    Yeah....the same poor bastard who is a slow learner.
    I only bought one!

    Quote Originally Posted by FenceFurniture View Post
    YIKES! I'd go no more than 6mm deep in each pass which will leave 1mm left for a nice smooth pass at the end. I think a 19mm deep pass straight into the guts of it is asking way too much (esp of chinese bits)
    This is the theory ( did you watch the BC vid link?) The spiral is the rough pass. The template bit is the smooth final pass which has to be at full depth with the bearing running against the template as it will destroy the template otherwise.

    I will try this approach however with the spiral bit in future and generally do take smaller bites in other router operations

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    Quote Originally Posted by Christos View Post
    I might have missed it but how fast is the speed of the router.

    Normally(if this can be said) to burn a bit the speed is too fast, or pushing too hard.

    Hang on I will go and look....

    Ok for the template bit i had it running at 19000 rpm approx.
    For the 1/2 inch spiral 18000 rpm approx.

    These are straight bits ( no profile) and both 1/2 inch in diameter.

    I was taking it easy and not pushing hard but maintaining a balance where I kept it moving enough so as not to burn anything. I didn't apply any more force than used to rout out the tail vise cavity which went off without a hitch. I will keep it in mind

  14. #73
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    And it looked so easy on the video.
    I think, as your safety adviser, it would be remiss of me not to suggest that you invest in a decent upcut spiral bit. At least for hogging the guts out. Even modify the template and use a template guide with the USB to do the final pass. We don't want to be calling you 'Lefty' from now on.
    Those were the droids I was looking for.
    https://autoblastgates.com.au

  15. #74
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    I think that is prolly too fast (sounds like flat tack). Maybe take it down to 12k or summink (I'm no router eggspurt). Maybe try and leave just a mm or so to take off for the final template bit. Could that final part be done in a router table? Screw the template to the job for each dog 'ole?
    Regards, FenceFurniture

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  16. #75
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    To clarify the template bit should take about 5mm off the sides and 6mm off the bottom in total. The final depth is 25mm.

    The length of the timber is 1.4 m. Only way to do this on a table would be to cut it down which I would rather not do.

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