Thread: Looking to buy Parf Guide System

Bought a Mk1 second hand & am very impressed with the precision. What do you want to make? PeterB46.jpg

I don't know if I should be saying this but...
My initial attempt abt a yr ago I purchased..

-Attempt at your own risk. Don't blame me if you half way realise this is a half ass solution which it is-

Lufkin 2x 1metre rulers from bunnings
The rest of the tools I had already. But those who want to mimic my attempt...
20mm Forstner bit from total tools
3mm bit from bunnings
Straight drill hole guide from ebay or amazon
19mm dowels Tasmanian oak
40mm x 2.8mm fibre cement nails
Trim router to chamber the holes (sand paper or borrow a mates)

.... This in no way is equivalent to a mft table. It is a Cheaper means of achieving CLOSE to similar results to that of a mft table.

My wife's uncle who is a fitter drilled a 3mm hole every 100mm on both rulers. It had to be dead accurate if not close to it. Like setting out for any building application 3-4-5 on the rulers. I made my setup 1metre x 1metre so it was huge. I cut dowels abt 10mm long predilled and insert my nails thru the face for placement holders On the ruler. I also predilled and did the same but this time on the rounded side of the dowel and inserted the nail thru to act as a collar to stop the dowels from falling thru. Those I made abt 50mm long thou it doesn't matter. Then drilled everything.. As you would see on the parf system video using everything I had.

The idea came from a cabinet maker when I queried how much would it cost for him to build 4 cabinets for me/ my wife's uncle. When I told him it was for myself he said he wasn't gonna take my money but teach me how easy it was (give a man a fish.... Teach a man to fish you know the saying). He told me abt the parf guide system so I looked it up. He even told me how to layout/build the cabs. I told him it was too expensive cause it was just a one of project so he told me the cheaper alternative above . I figured it'll be good, plus it'll add to my skill set for work. He was a Good bloke. Anyway it was good for then. I had used spare plywood from work. You could imagine all the problems associated with that. It worked OK for my repetitive cuts. I borrowed my bosses plunge saw and went to work. Alot of fiddling around as some of my cuts were slightly off parallel. But what was expected for a cheaper version/alternative to the real thing. We finished our project and it turned out smick. I left that board with my wife's uncle as he brags abt his cabs when we have our family gatherings. He has it in his garage workshop.

Anyway thanks guys for all this info. Appreciate it.

Originally Posted by Repete

Bought a Mk1 second hand & am very impressed with the precision. What do you want to make? PeterB46.jpg

Cabinets for kitchen and wir's

Originally Posted by Cgcc

AJ: don't know whether I should be saying this but the Mk 2 version has considerable improvements you can see on Peter Parfitts videos showing them off. Particularly for small size jobs. If you can afford it but have the option to buy the mk1 cheaper I'd watch those videos carefully to decide.

I had watched his videos before purchasing mine, although at the time the Mk1 was the only one available in OZ. All I intend to use it for is an MFT style bench top, the Mk1 will do that as many times as I am likely to need it in my lifetime. I also have a lathe and a mill, so in theory I could make the necessary upgrades to make it a mk2 equivelant.

Cheers Andrew

I would suggest a better alternative if you want to reduce upfront cost is to get one drilled by a company with a large CNC, it should be cheaper per top, but over many tops it’ll eventually be more expensive.

In regards to the comment about buying from “a local” rather than axminster, my local business support goes to companies that manufacture products in Australia, between retailers I’ll happily buy from overseas if its cheaper, I hope most companies eventually just sell direct online.

I've been trying to find the best solution for drilling a 20mm hole to suit the Benchdogs UK Quad Dogs and Bench Dogs for months.
I've tried a 20mm forstner bit and 20mm TCT boring bit (both from Timbecon). The forstner bit clogs too much and burns too easily, the sides are also a little rough.
The 20mm TCT boring bit drills a slightly bigger hole but gives a better finish cut.

The dogs are 20.0mm but the 20mm bits drill slightly larger then 20mm. Around 20.09 to 20.15, enough for the dogs to be too loose for the Bench Dogs but ok for the Quad Dogs once tighten.
I assume the larger cut size is a result of the vibration of the drill press.

I've have access to a CNC at work and there are issues with using a CNCs. Unless there is a accurate 20mm boring bit in the CNC, a 20mm circle route will not give you a perfect circle.
The problem is unless the entry and exit line of the routing fully cross over, you end up with a slight oval. Around 0.15mm off from a circle, enough for the dogs to wobble in one direction.
You also need to compensate for the router bit size. I had to program a 20.5mm circles to get a 20.05mm hole. I've tried both Pocket and Cutout hole programs and both don't cut perfect circles.
I'll need to draw my own circle polyline and draw them in numerous sizes to I find the right one.

So, Not so easy to drill a 20mm hole.

I plan on going to Carbatec to find out what size hole the Parf Boring bit drills. Hopefully closer to 20mm than the Forstner and Boring bit I bought from Timbecon.
I know there is a slight difference in size between the Parf Dogs and the Benchdogs, around 0.05mm I believe. But hopefully not enough to be a problem.

simple tip, if you want a slightly smaller hole from a forstner bit, take a little meat off the outside of the bit. That won't help if you have excessive runout in your drill, that's still likely the better thing to fix, but if that's reasonable then a quick touch with a file or sharpening stone/plate might make the difference you need

Originally Posted by poundy

simple tip, if you want a slightly smaller hole from a forstner bit, take a little meat off the outside of the bit. That won't help if you have excessive runout in your drill, that's still likely the better thing to fix, but if that's reasonable then a quick touch with a file or sharpening stone/plate might make the difference you need

Thought about that but there are 4 cutting edges and I think filing them may also result in a rougher finish cut. I want clean sides in order to reduce wear on the o-rings.
I'm going to try the 20mm TCT broing bit on the CNC at work. I think that may be the answer.

Senverse: the Parf Guide boring bits are bang on 20mm.

The Parf dogs are 19.9mm, which is just enough to let it get into holes without effort, but without being too "slippery". A joy to use.

So I purchased my parf guide from Carbatec this afternoon AND it was the last one in store. By the time I opened it thou it was passed 5pm and I noticed the drill bit was missing... $&@#������.. Oh well. Tomorrow's another day. But damn when I opened that box I swear I almost went blind. It was like the most beautiful thing I'd ever seen.������

Originally Posted by Cgcc

Senverse: the Parf Guide boring bits are bang on 20mm.

The Parf dogs are 19.9mm, which is just enough to let it get into holes without effort, but without being too "slippery". A joy to use.

Thanks Cgcc. That's really good to know.
Unfortunately it appears slickmick77 has just bought the last set. Guess I'll be waiting for new stock.

Originally Posted by slickmick77

So I purchased my parf guide from Carbatec this afternoon AND it was the last one in store. By the time I opened it thou it was passed 5pm and I noticed the drill bit was missing... $&@#������.. Oh well. Tomorrow's another day. But damn when I opened that box I swear I almost went blind. It was like the most beautiful thing I'd ever seen.������

Sounds like you'll be busy with your new toy.
Love to hear how it goes for you.

Originally Posted by Senverse

Thought about that but there are 4 cutting edges and I think filing them may also result in a rougher finish cut. I want clean sides in order to reduce wear on the o-rings.
I'm going to try the 20mm TCT broing bit on the CNC at work. I think that may be the answer.

I've lightly machined forstner bits in the past by just running them in the drill press and gently touching them with a sharpening stone, despite what some people say, carbide sharpens very easily with a stone or grinder wheel.

I have also bought a few TCT forstners from carbi-tool a couple weeks back, and the edges were the best I've ever seen, and it did measure bang on. They're also way cheaper than the ones in the other hardware stores.

cheers, Ian

Originally Posted by Midnight Man

Side note mathematics for you (in case this got buried): The kit at Carbatec is $399, at Axminster is $330 (assuming we're talking about a Mk II system) - by the time it's shipped (to NSW at least) you can add $35 to that price to arrive at $365 - now add the GST on $365 which will apply when the package arrives here, and you come to $401.00 - I'd say just roll down the road, buy it local, keep the coin in Australia, and get the product right now instead of waiting for it?

GST will not apply for any import sub $1000AUD including freight in that figure and you will not pay UK's GST on the price because it is being exported.

Originally Posted by Chris Parks

GST will not apply for any import sub $1000AUD including freight in that figure and you will not pay UK's GST on the price because it is being exported.

I thought as of last year or whenever it was that GST is now applied to virtually all goods that are imported regardless of value?

Certainly Ebay is applying it to all foreign sellers, and including it in the totals domestically. I think there are some excluded categories but I have no idea what they are.

"From 1 July 2018, the goods and services tax (GST) will apply to retail sales of low-value physical goods ($1000 or less) that have been imported to Australia and sold to consumers.
The existing processes to collect GST on imports above $1000 at the border are unchanged."
cheers, Ian