Thread: Fletty's new shed WIP ....or is it a retrospective??

Alan I'd use some fibreglass and resin to fix that dress with auto or builders bog.

Originally Posted by BobL

Even with a 150 mm port attached, to really get hold of that fine dust air has to be able to get into that hood. Have you got ant plans for venting it in any way?

Yes, I’ve been looking at that BUT the air path between the spinning drum and the lower half of the shroud is only a few mm. If I drill some vent holes below the centreline of the drum I doubt that it would increase the airflow. If I drill vents above the centre line then it would better evacuate the area above the drum but might let dust be flung out by the drum? I’m still thinking.......

I applaud your effort to improve the port on the drum sander. I understand where Bob is coming from with his question getting more air into the hood. If the mod doesn't work to your satisfaction I have a suggestion and it is to toss the existing one to the side, make a shroud that covers the front and back of the frame to the bottom edge and have a rounded lip along the bottom, kind of like a bell mouth. The gap to the frame would only need to be about a finger wide and would allow air and any dust not grabbed inside to come up the outsides. You could smooth out the reinforcing ridges of the frame with some auto body bog for a less turbulent flow if you wanted.

I have one of the original Performax 22/44 sanders that attached to a radial arm saw and added the later optional stands and belt feed. Dust collection on it is worse than yours because it came with a 2" port for shop vacs. I haven't modded it yet as I rarely use it but did the other day. I have given it a lot of thought over the years and I think it is the best way so mine will get a shroud like I suggested, hopefully before I need it again.

Pete

Originally Posted by fletty

Yes, I’ve been looking at that BUT the air path between the spinning drum and the lower half of the shroud is only a few mm. If I drill some vent holes below the centreline of the drum I doubt that it would increase the airflow. If I drill vents above the centre line then it would better evacuate the area above the drum but might let dust be flung out by the drum? I’m still thinking.......

this is what we did to the mens shed sander.
Attachment 454126
It still needs a conversion to 2 x 6"
The mod improves the fine dust collection but there is still a lot of visible dust trapped in the belt each side of the workpiece which falls off the belt onto the lord so they added box to catch that as the belt goes around the out-feed roller.
Sorry about the picture quality - its a photo from a low res PDF.
Attachment 454128

A comment on European machines in answer to Bob's observation above. My Hammer slider has a 125mm port which on the face of it is a big step up from 100mm but that is not the whole story. On the inlet side of that port inside the machine cabinet the pipe and port construction (and remember this is a one piece port) has an entry of 90mm so they deliberately choke it down inside the cabinet. Attached to that is about a metre of flexible hose so in affect it is worse than a 100mm port on a cabinet saw.

Originally Posted by Chris Parks

A comment on European machines in answer to Bob's observation above. My Hammer slider has a 125mm port which on the face of it is a big step up from 100mm but that is not the whole story. On the inlet side of that port inside the machine cabinet the pipe and port construction (and remember this is a one piece port) has an entry of 90mm so they deliberately choke it down inside the cabinet. Attached to that is about a metre of flexible hose so in affect it is worse than a 100mm port on a cabinet saw.

125 mm is indeed a significant from 100 mm step up and if the saw has a decent OH guard and dust collection 125mm is probably enough for shorter shallower cuts provided enough air can get to the cabinet.

RE; Hobblling the air inlets
I've seen this on a few machines and my understanding is that this is dine to reduce the possibility of sawdust interfering with internal mechanisms. After all the manufacturers or reps don't want to be called out to unjam a mechanisms during the warranty period and be forever blamed for jams outside the warranty period.. However, if enough air flow is used this should not be a problem..

Originally Posted by BobL

125 mm is indeed a significant from 100 mm step up and if the saw has a decent OH guard and dust collection 125mm is probably enough for shorter shallower cuts provided enough air can get to the cabinet.

RE; Hobblling the air inlets
I've seen this on a few machines and my understanding is that this is dine to reduce the possibility of sawdust interfering with internal mechanisms. After all the manufacturers or reps don't want to be called out to unjam a mechanisms during the warranty period and be forever blamed for jams outside the warranty period.. However, if enough air flow is used this should not be a problem..

Take my word for it, 125mm into a 90mm hose does not work. The only saws I have seen this on are European sliders, have you seen it on others from Asia?

Originally Posted by Chris Parks

Take my word for it, 125mm into a 90mm hose does not work. The only saws I have seen this on are European sliders, have you seen it on others from Asia?

I was referring to a general use of 125 as opposed to of 100m, I wasn't referring to any additional throttling down inside the machine.

Originally Posted by fletty

I have a couple of ideas for the thicknesser conversion and will need to convert that ASAP or it will be a bit ‘inconvenient’ having 2 of my main users having different ports?

I already had a busy day planned with hospital visits, (Mrs fletty is in hospital having had a double knee replacement and is doing brilliantly, walking without assistance on the fifth day!), housework and other save-my-neck domestic chores, so I added a 150mm port on the thicknesser as well! I know there will be some controversy BUT there are operational advantages for me to have a vertical extraction port so I started work on one between vacuuming the house and hospital visit. Firstly (and this is relevant to the design!) I pointed the open thicknesser ejection port out through the open roller shutter door and was pleased to see the shavings being ejected with some force. I then put a pile of shavings on the floor and lowered a ‘live’ 150mm port over the pile to see at what height above the floor the the pile of shavings really started to be sucked up. This gave me confidence to sketch a design where the thicknesser directed shavings, and hopefully fine dust, in to a chamber and then a 150 degree duct held above the chamber by 100 mm would evacuate the chamber. Here is the concept and it is fair to say that I arrived at the hospital 80km away with fibreglass resin still on my hands but no photos taken of the then current progress...

DC290DC4-2ADA-4351-B0D3-FD095A5F8653.jpg 729F4E37-6183-4F95-A38F-76B8F28DE35F.jpg

PS, neither a pre-hospital shower nor the hospital’s hand cleaning gel are capable of removing resin

As at close of play yesterday and some more fibreglassing today...

AD4B8863-311E-4077-95D6-0FC5F4312FFA.jpg 78A9F342-9AE0-47E4-BAD4-E1E6E4DF8B8B.jpg

There are undoubted inefficiencies in turning the airflow through 90deg but I have about twice the cross sectional area compared to the old arrangement ON the thicknesser ........

DD77AD6D-FA71-4C0F-BBA2-E57F93155BB4.jpg

.... and I can also get rid of about a metre of 100mm flex connecting to the boom OUTSIDE of it.
I’m now off to get some epoxy putty to clean up the outside of the new ducts but more importantly to smooth the internals and create a few bellmouths.

This was the old arrangement of ducting at the end of the boom. The ducting reduced from 150 to 100 then a short section of flex to make alignment less critical and then a DustRight connector and length of 100 flex to go to a 100 machine port...

5C4C8633-82FE-4048-AEC9-494CF3F97751.jpg

The machine ports on the drum sander and thicknesser are now increased to 150 mm diameter...

15C2BF24-49F6-4C5B-BECD-62107001E3BC.jpg

.... and the ducting arrangement at the end the boom has been upgraded to 150 all the way. There is still a short length of flex to make alignment less critical...

C8F59762-3D7C-43BE-BFE9-EA046BB142D0.jpg

The change for the thicknesser is the more dramatic...

6C315CC0-EBB9-4C51-A1D8-916A30273CD6.jpg

...... changing from more than a metre of 100mm flex to a short and more direct length of 150mm duct and minimal flex! There is a dramatic increase in airflow for both machines but I haven’t used them in anger yet ...... mostly because the paint isn’t dry!

So, whilst caring for Mrs Fletty, if I suggest she has done enough exercise for the day and should have a rest, this results in IMMEDIATE denial, rebellion, anger AND another loooong walk ....... thus giving me time to duck into the shed? The ‘next train to leave the 150mm upgrade station’ is the jointer. The flimsy, plastic 100 mm port hides a reasonable significant exhaust port....

202D5A19-E64A-4855-9D7E-95E82B00E89A.jpg

... for which I made a new blanking plate fitted with a 150mm flange. I designed it so that there was no ‘lip’ on the bottom...

E284BFC4-702C-429C-B3C0-2573ECDAB287.jpg

I have mocked up a possible duct arrangement which I will trial before fixing but, at the moment, all I can think of is....

D73E6CF1-A64B-4E1D-B57B-17E7ECB40404.jpg

clackety-clack, clacketty-clack, clacketty-clack, toooot-toot, clacketty- clack, clacketty- clack...

Originally Posted by fletty

So, whilst caring for Mrs Fletty, if I suggest she has done enough exercise for the day and should have a rest, this results in IMMEDIATE denial, rebellion, anger AND another loooong walk ....... thus giving me time to duck into the shed?

My other half would be proud of you. She frequently comes out with a chorous of "there is no point getting older if you don't get smarter." However, I am not sure if devious and downright cunning are well received in this new intelligence level. I will surrepticiously check on your behalf. Probably not an option for the male gender. I think it falls into the "underhand" category and is forbidden.

I was looking at all your new piping and thought "I should do that and invest in 150mm piping. Why haven't I already done that?" Then I remembered my shed roof is so low that 150mm piping would bring my average height into contact with the ducting and not only would I hit my head on the doorways designed for ample clearance with the vertically challenged in mind, but I'd be bashing my head at almost every step I took.

Your ducting looks like just the job. I hope you have a suitable boiler ticket for that train. I would hate you to fall foul of the household police.

Regards
Paul

Nah, I’ll be right Paul, the “house police” are still out walking
All joking aside, she is doing remarkably well. She was walking from the second day after the op and walking independently from Day 5. She’s currently carrying (not using) a walking stick but that apparently is just for hitting me?
Has the Leadlight restoration started?
fletty