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  1. #76
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    Quote Originally Posted by 62woollybugger View Post

    The timber door on my shed has two short braces in compression, one above & one below the centre rail.
    ACTUALLY, if l was going to use 2 (timber) braces on each door, I would probably have used 2 in compression! It's all to do with the 'stiffness' of the brace. A long brace would be better in tension. A short brace, or multiple short braces would be equally as good in compression. On your disconnectors where it's a bit 'ard to have a tension brace ABOVE () a stiff steel brace underneath, in compression, is the only way to go?
    Anyway, a 'V' looked better and more welcoming than a StarWars 'A' portal .........

    fletty
    .... if you can't see the bright side, polish the dull side

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  3. #77
    Join Date
    Nov 2004
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    Millmerran,QLD
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    The New Year's resolution was for fewer digressions so the question really is when does the New Year commence? I know a lot of people go along with 1 January, but as a lawyer friend of mind once said when confronted with an incontrovertible statement, "I don't agree."

    So is it better to be in tension or compression? I have to say that if such knowledgeable gentlemen had not pointed out to me that doors (and maybe gates too) with braces in compression inevitably twist I would have voted for the compression brace transferring the load to the hinged side of the door or gate.

    Really we are talking about a "framed, ledged and braced" door. The object of the brace is to prevent the door sagging and has nothing to do woith eliminating twist. Traditionally twisting is eliminated by the lock rail (middle) and the bottom rail, which should both be deep (225mm). The stiles and top rail should be 110mm. Again, to minimise the possibility of twisting the lock and bottom rails have two, haunched tenons.

    The brace, and the source of the controversy, can be whatever width you wish, but typically will be around 75mm. Now with a door that is sheeted (tongue and groove) the lock rail, bottom rail and brace are the thickness of the door less the thickness of the sheeting. However with your door those three components can be the full thickness of the door as your sheeting is fixed to the face of the door. This would make them stronger again.

    Note that in a framed, ledged and braced door there are two braces as a single brace would have the wrong angle for strength. I think this is what you mentioned in the last post.

    If I found that doors, or gates, were twisting I think I would look first at.

    1. The suitability of the timber (species, hardwood/softwood etc)
    2. The dimensions of the timber
    3. Seasoning of the timber

    Having said all that (phew) I really like the look of the "V" and I think two of Disston's Victory saws mounted one per door would set it off very nicely.

    The last serious doors I made in this style were for the house we used to live in so it has been quite a time. The timber was Ironbark and I made up four framed, ledged and braced doors plus four more french doors. Now Ironbark is a really poor choice of timber as you may imagine it is all fine until you have to move and hang the doors: They are heavier than your brother, but they are still there nearly twenty five years later.

    One last thought is that joinery doors (and windows) should be made in quarter sawn timber as this is more stable for this purpose. However, I didn't know that back in those days and I just got the mill to saw up the log I had cut out of the paddock so it was all backsawn. It was an old dead standing tree. The saw mill complained they had to sharpen their saw every fifteen minutes.

    I hope this hasn't confused everybody. It's as clear as a forest full of trees to me.

    All the best for 2016. The resolutions can now commence.

    Regards
    Paul
    Bushmiller;

    "Power tends to corrupt. Absolute power corrupts, absolutely!"

  4. #78
    Join Date
    May 2007
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    North of the coathanger, Sydney
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    My brain hurts - thanks Bushie
    regards
    Nick
    veni, vidi,
    tornavi
    Without wood it's just ...

  5. #79
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    Apr 2013
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    Macksville
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    57
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    Mmmm, did I leave a can of worms at your place Fletty? Can you make sure the lids on.

  6. #80
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    Mar 2005
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    Camden, NSW
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    Quote Originally Posted by 62woollybugger View Post
    Mmmm, did I leave a can of worms at your place Fletty? Can you make sure the lids on.
    it's too late.jpeg

    ......it's too late Mike ........ RUN!
    .... if you can't see the bright side, polish the dull side

  7. #81
    Join Date
    Feb 2003
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    used to live in Sydney, now it's Canada
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    Quote Originally Posted by fletty View Post
    Hi Ian (no W), how long will you be in the frozen North? It must be a bit cold there ATM?
    Hi fletty

    the plan is for about 3 years while my son finishes high school.

    after 42 years in the workforce, I'm old enough to retire and I will when I get to the end of my accrued leave.

    Cold?
    it's a mix of acclimatization, clothing and what the temperature and wind speed are.
    the last few days have felt positively "warm" -- little if any wind and a temperature of 4 or 5 degrees (the temperature hasn't been above freezing since early November and we've assuming the minus sign, so 4 or 5 means -4 to -5)
    The max was -18 on New Year's Eve.

    The biggest challenge so far is keeping the car warm.
    The garage is heated to +18 C so starting the car is not a problem, but by the time we've gone a kilometre or so, the coolant in the radiator is well below freezing and even after 100km on the highway the engine is still too cold for the idle cut-out to work.
    regards from Canada

    ian

  8. #82
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    Mar 2005
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    I've finished the barn door all bar the painting.....

    20160104_122937.jpg

    ... and it doesn't look like that will happen until God has finished her 40 days and 40 nights trick?

    However, this has given me time to start work on the storage. Ive looked at retail-available shelving but, understandably, that doesn't go as high as 3 metres and seemed very expensive. I looked at second-hand racking and this does go to 3 metres but is even more expensive? So I thought I'd see how reasonably I could make it now that I really can exclude my own labour cost ?
    I placed the PA door in the shed extension such that I could use it to load long 'stuff' straight into the end of the racking so that determines where the racking should go. The wall height is 3 metres so that the eaves of the extension are higher than the ridge line of the old shed, and that sets the maximum height. There is a window set into that wall and I have to stay clear of that. I have a lot of 'stuff' stored in plastic tub containers and that sets the upright and shelf spacing for a majority of the storage.

    20160106_151110.jpg

    As I am already in trouble re spending on the shed, the costs for the storage needs to be gradual ... and low.... and that dictated a modular design which would allow me to make another bay each time I'm in the GOOD BOOKS although that would have meant only 1 bay in the last 5 years !
    I decided to use structural grade 90 x 35 mm pine available in 3 metre lengths from Bunnings and this is the prototype that I designed and assembled today....

    20160106_161813.jpg

    ..... the apparent curvature of the structure is due to the crappy mobile phone lens and is not indicative of twisted timber from Bunnings! There will be 4 more bays like this one and the shelves on the prototype are the only 3 shelves that are common to all 5 bays. All of the bays will then have a few additional but different shelves and/or bins. I'm pretty pleased with it as each of these modules uses only 9 x 3 metre lengths of 90 x 35 radiata pine and these are currently LESS THAN $8 PER LENGTH. So, a total cost of $70 for a basic bay .

    fletty
    .... if you can't see the bright side, polish the dull side

  9. #83
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Location
    Horsham Victoria
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    5,704

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    Nice racks and love the look of the doors

    Dave TTC
    Turning Wood Into Art

  10. #84
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    May 2007
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    cool doors

    do you need such strong shelf supports, or could you save a couple of [the rare] brownie points by ripping them in half?
    regards
    Nick
    veni, vidi,
    tornavi
    Without wood it's just ...

  11. #85
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sawdust Maker View Post

    do you need such strong shelf supports, or could you save a couple of [the rare] brownie points by ripping them in half?
    Hi Nick, would you believe l thought of that too but some of my storage tubs are VERY heavy (45 years of aviation and modelling books and magazines) and so l didn't risk it. I remember my Grandfather testing a set of bookshelves by loading it with bricks until he got an 1/8" deflection and then claiming that he had designed it to withstand "exactly that many bricks"! Some of the extra shelves will be a lighter structure though.
    fletty
    .... if you can't see the bright side, polish the dull side

  12. #86
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    Quote Originally Posted by fletty View Post
    I placed the PA door in the shed extension such that I could use it to load long 'stuff' straight into the end of the racking so that determines where the racking should go.

    snip

    I decided to use structural grade 90 x 35 mm pine available in 3 metre lengths from Bunnings and this is the prototype that I designed and assembled today....

    20160106_161813.jpg

    ..... the apparent curvature of the structure is due to the crappy mobile phone lens and is not indicative of twisted timber from Bunnings!
    Hi fletty

    two comments if I may ...
    personally I'd allow more space between the PA door and the first bay to allow the PA door to be used as a door rather than what seems from the photos to be more an access hatch.

    Bracing?
    unless those joints are really high quality M&Ts -- which will be difficult with structural grade pine -- your prototype needs diagonal braces across the back and on both uprights
    regards from Canada

    ian

  13. #87
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    Nov 2007
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    Dundowran Beach
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    Thumbs up

    G'day Fletty.

    I had the same thoughts as Ian about the PA door and access. Nothing worse than needing an extra inch to manoeuvre things.

    Had to look up MANOEUVRE. Too early in the morning and it's a bugger of a word to spell. Guess it's the French origin.

    The spell checker here is still putting a wriggly red line under it so who is correct??

  14. #88
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    Nov 2004
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    Alan

    If you are planning on more of these shelving units in a modular style, they may well become more rigid as the are attached to each other (bolted or screwed) and that being the case you might not need bracing.

    Can you fix the shelving to the wall? That would definitely give it rigidity.

    Regards
    Paul
    Bushmiller;

    "Power tends to corrupt. Absolute power corrupts, absolutely!"

  15. #89
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    Quote Originally Posted by ian View Post
    Hi fletty

    two comments if I may ...
    personally I'd allow more space between the PA door and the first bay to allow the PA door to be used as a door rather than what seems from the photos to be more an access hatch.

    Bracing?
    unless those joints are really high quality M&Ts -- which will be difficult with structural grade pine -- your prototype needs diagonal braces across the back and on both uprights
    Quote Originally Posted by artme View Post
    G'day Fletty.

    I had the same thoughts as Ian about the PA door and access. Nothing worse than needing an extra inch to manoeuvre things.

    Had to look up MANOEUVRE. Too early in the morning and it's a bugger of a word to spell. Guess it's the French origin.

    The spell checker here is still putting a wriggly red line under it so who is correct??
    Thanks for the comments everyone.
    Re the PA door, l must be having the same thoughts because originally the rack was hard against the door and it really was only an "access hatch". I had presumed that, as with the original shed, the PA doors would be made on site and, to centre the roller shutter, the remaining space would give a door (hatch?) only 600mm wide. However, the new shed was built by a much more professional outfit and the PA door came as a standard width leaving the roller shutter OFF centre !
    With the 2 sheds joined, l still have another PA door, the barn doors and the roller shutter visible in the pic, but the rack against a 'real' door just looks like bad planning and so the rack, which is not fixed yet, has been slowly moving further away from the door.
    Re the bracing, there isn't even really LOW quality M&T !
    12mm ply shelves will resist any horizontal racking, fixing back to the wall and occasional side and rear ply panels will resist lateral racking.
    I have been asked about the other types of shelves that will be fitted? One of my great annoyances is offcuts, too "good" to throw away but don't "need" it "yet"? So, one of the spaces will be filled with horizontal lengths of cut-up 100mm PVC pipe from the removed DC setup. Also, the upper part of each bay will be separated by a vertical narrow gap, 700 X 2000 X 70 which l'll use for sheet goods like veneered ply offcuts, Perspex and Repliconics enamel Indian motorbike sign prior to delivery!

    fletty

    PS, l took SO long to type the post above that Bushmiller's reply snuck in while I was eating my yoghurt and muesli!
    Thanks Paul, the modules will also be bolted together.
    .... if you can't see the bright side, polish the dull side

  16. #90
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    Mar 2005
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sawdust Maker View Post

    .....save a couple of [the rare] brownie points......
    Ive just been caught washing wall hanging tote bins from the shed IN THE DISHWASHER......
    .... if you can't see the bright side, polish the dull side

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