Insulating the shed

plantagenon · #1 20th Feb 2012, 10:23 PM

I need some advice, please.

Finally, I have my new shed on a concrete slab and now its time to insulate it against heat and noise emitting.

Description
The shed is 4.6 metres long x 2.6 metres wide x 2 metres high - not huge but I have to work with the size and in it. I worked out I can fit all the necessary equipment in it and have a little room to move around. The rest of my tools can be housed in a spare garage but unfortunately I can't use that for turning or sanding because of the dust problem (even with a dust extractor).

It's a Stratco constructed of colourbond metal which is very thin. The temperature can get high in Brisbane's summers and the neighbour at the back is not very tolerant to noise. So I have to soundproof it and stay fairly cool when working in it.

The ceiling is a gable with metal beams running along the length 75cm widths.

The walls have a horizontal metal support beam at 100cm off the floor (dividing the height of the wall in half, height wise).

There is also a metal stud half way along the length of the walls but none at the back wall.

The beams and studs come out about 8cm from the walls.

I have some soundproof, fireproof, heat proof bats left over from the house build. I was thinking about using them along the walls and maybe the ceiling. But I need to seal them in place with a liner of some sort. I have used very thin ply before to line a pergola ceiling and it worked well but I had a lot of join points to screw into.

Can anyone suggest a very lightweight material that might hold the bats on the ceiling and against the walls ?

Anything lighter than plywood that will do the trick and not cost a fortune would be wonderful. I was even thinking about gluing sheets of poly to the roof but I am not sure about its fireproof qualities.

Any advice welcome (other than get a bigger shed).

Thanks

Greg

Sawdust Maker · #2 20th Feb 2012, 10:31 PM

I'd suggest a search through the shed showoff part of the forum
this has been covered a number of times
linky

BobL · #3 20th Feb 2012, 10:44 PM

What about thin sheet metal over polystyrene foam?
The kind of material used in sun rooms?

Pariss · #4 20th Feb 2012, 10:57 PM

Hey Greg. If your not worried about looks, then chicken wire will hold the bats nicely in place, especialy in the ceiling area. Just roll it out and stretch it tight, then Tek-screw it to the frame.

Simomatra · #5 21st Feb 2012, 08:10 AM

Insulating Shed/Garage, again! [Archive] - Woodwork Forums

Aircell

BobL · #6 21st Feb 2012, 11:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Simomatra

Insulating Shed/Garage, again! [Archive] - Woodwork Forums

Aircell

Sam , Plantagenon already has his insulation, he is after after a light weight cladding material.

plantagenon · #7 21st Feb 2012, 10:24 PM

Thanks everyone for your contributions. I couldn't sleep last night as I kept trying to think of ways to make the insulation work. Finally, about 4am I came up with the method based on some ideas suggested. Then I had to get up for work at 5am - what a day

I have tomorrow off so i will begin. I will photograph the epic and place the pics on here. If it works out it may help someone else in the same situation.

First I have to stop water getting in under the shed base off the slab when the rain pelts down. Silicone will solve that before I dynabolt it to the slab. I will also line the roof joins with silicone to ensure there are no leaks. That is stage 1.

BobL, I checked on the sheeting you mentioned, but it is far, far too expensive. I was even surprised that a polystyrene layer in the roof would cost almost $400 for a shed this small (4.6m x 2.6m). Madness

So I am going to use the left over Pink Acoustic bats and hold them in place with thin form ply on both the roof and walls. I thought the chicken mesh through Pariss but on advice from Bradford Bats I have given it away as they said I would end up with small fibreglass particles floating down constantly. Almost as bad as asbestos I would imagine.

Anyway, wait for the photos.

Greg

BobL · #8 21st Feb 2012, 10:53 PM

[quote=plantagenon;1448595]

Quote:

BobL, I checked on the sheeting you mentioned, but it is far, far too expensive. I was even surprised that a polystyrene layer in the roof would cost almost $400 for a shed this small (4.6m x 2.6m). Madness

That is crazy. That's why I suggested seeing if you can find used materials. A friend of mine picked up 20 m^2 of the stuff for $100. It was water stained, but for a shed that wouldn't be an issue.

Quote:

So I am going to use the left over Pink Acoustic bats and hold them in place with thin form ply on bith the roof and walls. I thought the chicken mesh through Pariss but on advice from Bradford Bats I have given it away as they said I would end up with small fibreglass particles floating down constantly. Almost as bad as asbestos I would imagine.

Not quite but not good.

The thin form ply doesn't sound like a cheap option - how thin is thin?

plantagenon · #9 21st Feb 2012, 11:36 PM

Bob

I can't remember the exact thickness but I used it previously to hold up insulation and line a pergola I built at the back of the previous house. I think it was under 10mm. I had to screw it to the frame at about 24 inch distances to ensure it didn't bend. I varnished it to waterproof it and it is still in good shape after 3 years. I think it cost me under $100 at the time I bought it. This time i will need less and will slot it into the base of the metal roof beams (or whatever they are called) which are only 75cm apart. If necessary I will support it with a bit of metal straping I have in the middle. I think it will work. If it doesn't I will have to fall back on a more expensive option. Lining the walls and sealing them will not be a problem as I won't have the gravity factor to contend with.

I thought I would make use of the sound proofing bats as I have a neighbour at the back who complains to the Council if his cat meows. Fortunately the shed has a row of thick trees between him and it (although he is always wanting them cut down). Lovely fellow.

Maybe the trees will survive once he hears the vacuum cleaner sound of the DE whirling outside the shed

Robson Valley · #10 22nd Feb 2012, 06:33 AM

Do you have Coroplast in OZ? Looks like corrugated cardboard box material but 4' x 8' sheets, about 1/4" or less thick, plain translucent and many colors. $11 each, here.

BobL · #11 22nd Feb 2012, 12:55 PM

If you are after decent sound proofing then the sound proof bats are pretty useless when used on any light weight wall type structure. To reduce sound transmittance through a wall a combination of sheer mass and some sound absorbing materials are required. The most important thing is the sheer mass which reflects the sound back though the sound bats which on multiple passes though the sound bats eventually absorbs the sound. When a light weight structure is used the sound is not reflected back often enough and much of it escapes.

On my dust extractor enclosure which is outside my shed, from the inside to the the outside, the enclosure walls have 16 mm chipboard, 35 mm melamine, 75 mm of thermal bats and then the colorbond outer sheeting. The bats are in this case not very effective as sound absorbance because the colorbond will not reflect much of the sound back towards the inside of the enclosure. But the 16 mm chipboard + 35 mm melamine are very heavy so they keep the sound inside enclosure where it is disspated as heat - which the air escaping from the DE removes, so overall the sound reduction is quite acceptable.

plantagenon · #12 22nd Feb 2012, 05:18 PM

Thanks for your comments Bob and now I need some more advice please if you don't mind.

I have added some photos to show you more precisely what I have been attempting to explain. The first and second pics are of the shed exterior, the third of the interior and the last of the insulation I was going to use.

I have applied the silicone to the base, wall and roof joins today to waterproof it totally. I will let that set before I begin to line it.

I bought sheets of 6mm ply to cover the bats on the inside of the shed and prevent fibreglass dust floating down and being breathed in. To stop the ply from bending once it is in place I was going to support it with bracing straps screwed into the metal frame. I can get a roll of that from bunnings.

What would you recommend that I put against the colourbond interior of the shed before I put the bats against that in order to reduce noise and heat? I can't put in very thick material as that will take up too much space in the limited area I have.

Thanks for your advice and help.

Greg

Tezza · #13 22nd Feb 2012, 09:32 PM

Hi Greg, many moons ago I was thinking how to sound proof my shed and found that the sound proof batts available back then were too expensive, so had to come up with another option. I looked at the sound proofing used in sound studios but that was more expensive... Hmmm what to do.

Went to a few fish & chip shops and green grocers and asked if they can keep their egg cartons. From memory they are about 400x400mm or thereabouts. Stuck them to the tin walls with gap filler to keep costs down again (instead of silicone), gap filler works fine as its flexible and it does stick.
The pros about the egg cartons is that they have the same design as the sound studio panels.

I screwed timber battens horizontally onto the steel structure (before the cartons of course), then screwed 16mm chipboard to the battens.
Noise levels from the outside were reduced dramatically. I can use my panel saw and dust extractor and from 3m away it sounds like I'm using an orbital sander.
I did this in 1995 and there has been no maintenance at all.

Hope this helps

T

BobL · #14 22nd Feb 2012, 09:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tezza

Hi Greg, many moons ago I was thinking how to sound proof my shed and found that the sound proof batts available back then were too expensive, so had to come up with another option. I looked at the sound proofing used in sound studios but that was more expensive... Hmmm what to do.

Went to a few fish & chip shops and green grocers and asked if they can keep their egg cartons. From memory they are about 400x400mm or thereabouts. Stuck them to the tin walls with gap filler to keep costs down again (instead of silicone), gap filler works fine as its flexible and it does stick.
The pros about the egg cartons is that they have the same design as the sound studio panels.

Sound studio panels are designed to reduce reverb inside a studio which is different to preventing sound transmittance through a wall.

I can tell you right away the egg cartons in your setup would have done something towards reducing the high frequencies and very little for the low frequencies and the 16 mm of chipboard would have most of the sound reduction High frequencies attenuation pretty quickly in atmosphere anyway so they are often less of a problem with neighbors.

BobL · #15 22nd Feb 2012, 10:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by plantagenon

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What would you recommend that I put against the colourbond interior of the shed before I put the bats against that in order to reduce noise and heat? I can't put in very thick material as that will take up too much space in the limited area I have.

Thanks for your advice and help.

Greg

I would use what are sometimes called "top hat" sheet metal battens.
Like this.
These are normally used for ceilings because they are lightweight but I have seen them used on lightweight walls such as you need. If you space the battens every 600 mm you should not need the metal strap.

Don't expect too much in terms of sound reduction from that structure.

The screws will look and seal better better if they are screwed on from the outside. What I did with mine was drill and fix the battens in place with two tek screw from the inside. Then drill all the other fixing holes from teh inside and tek screw from the outside. Then remove the two original tek screws and rescrew them from the inside.