Insulating the shed - Page 2

Tezza · #16 22nd Feb 2012, 10:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BobL

Sound studio panels are designed to reduce reverb inside a studio which is different to preventing sound transmittance through a wall.

I can tell you right away the egg cartons in your setup would have done something towards reducing the high frequencies and very little for the low frequencies and the 16 mm of chipboard would have most of the sound reduction High frequencies attenuation pretty quickly in atmosphere anyway so they are often less of a problem with neighbors.

Very true BobL about the high frequencies, however my compressor is in a box made the same way under the fixed work bench at the end next to the wall with the exception of insulation batt under the bench top which again is 16mm PB & 3mm MDF holding it up.
The gap between the back of the wall panels to the face of the cartons is about 25mm, so it allows the noise to bounce back and fourth between the panel and cartons.
The high frequencies especially from the scribes on the saw makes the neighbours dogs bark! Never had a problem and with low frequencies the noise level is still halved.

BobL · #17 22nd Feb 2012, 10:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tezza

Very true BobL about the high frequencies, however my compressor is in a box made the same way under the fixed work bench at the end next to the wall with the exception of insulation batt under the bench top which again is 16mm PB & 3mm MDF holding it up.
The gap between the back of the wall panels to the face of the cartons is about 25mm, so it allows the noise to bounce back and fourth between the panel and cartons.
The high frequencies especially from the scribes on the saw makes the neighbours dogs bark! Never had a problem and with low frequencies the noise level is still halved.

The problem with low frequencies is they are less apparent to people near a sound source because the low frequencies are masked by even a small amount of high frequencies. The chances are the dogs can hear the low frequencies equally or better than us - that's why they can hear a car coming from a long way away. So it could be that the PB is working quite well.

Tezza · #18 22nd Feb 2012, 10:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BobL

The problem with low frequencies is they are less apparent to people near a sound source because the low frequencies are masked by even a small amount of high frequencies. The chances are the dogs can hear the low frequencies equally or better than us - that's why they can hear a car coming from a long way away. So it could be that the PB is working quite well.

Very interesting, I'm listening and learning.
Lots to learn on these forums

plantagenon · #19 22nd Feb 2012, 11:00 PM

Thanks Bob. I have seen the top hat and can fit them without any problems. My other question comes from your comment last night that the bats would not reduce the noise unless there was some other sort of timber insulation put up against the metal walls first. What sort of timber would you suggest given that I don't have a lot of space?

If I have of been smart I would have had a shed made out of besser blocks and solved all the problems in one go.

Greg

BobL · #20 22nd Feb 2012, 11:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tezza

Very interesting, I'm listening and learning.
Lots to learn on these forums

About 10 years ago SWMBO convinced me that I needed a hearing test (She liked the TV on about 25, out of 50, and I liked it on 32/50) to cut a long story shot it turned out (accounting for age etc) that I was legally deaf in the higher frequencies. The audiologist suggested that from my frequency losses it was because I listened to too much 70's rock music and he was dead right. Anyway I investigated all this in some detail and the small upside is I can hear low frequencies a little better so I am statistically less likely to get run over as a pedestrian because I can hear vehicles coming. Now even though I can't hear high frequencies very well I really hate the sound of higher frequency tools like routers and angle grinders. I think it is psychosomatic because I know it is these frequencies that I have lost so I do everything I can (like ear muffs and ear plugs when using these tools) to prevent further loss.

plantagenon · #21 22nd Feb 2012, 11:32 PM

I lost my higher pitch hearing due to big bore rifle shooting at the range. I shot in competitions (target) with 7.62 cal for a few years and now I have a lot of problems hearing higher pitch noises such as SWMBO yelling at me. However, as you said, I can hear a car coming or a person sneaking up behind me. Fortunately, I sold the gun many years ago.

BazzaDLB · #22 23rd Feb 2012, 12:04 AM

Hi Greg,

I've been thinking of insulating my shed to reduce the heat.

I was thinking of using bats and then lining the shed with plasterboard.

The local big green shed has 2400x1200 sheets here for around $12.00 each.

Perhaps you might be able to use something like that for yours.

Cheers

Bazza B

BobL · #23 23rd Feb 2012, 12:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BazzaDLB

Hi Greg,
I've been thinking of insulating my shed to reduce the heat.
I was thinking of using bats and then lining the shed with plasterboard.
The local big green shed has 2400x1200 sheets here for around $12.00 each.
Perhaps you might be able to use something like that for yours.
Cheers
Bazza B

I was going to suggest plaster because that is what I used on most of my shed. 10 mm plasterboard has a higher mass per unit area than 6 mm ply and thus better sound insulation but plategenon's wall structure is too lightweight and any flush joints would crack over time. If your shed has a rigid wall structure then plaster is definitely a cheap way to go and while it dings easily it is also easily repaired.

I used 75 x 32.8 x 1.2 mm steel C-channel studs between 100 x 50 mm C purlins for my wall frame which made for quite a rigid wall structure. I used mainly air cell for the insulation and some left over rockwool bats for the rest. The aircell and bats produces very little sound proofing, its the plasterboard that is the main contributor to the sound reduction.
Here's the new part of the shed, half minorb and half paster lined.

And here is the old part of the shed with the lining almost complete.

plantagenon · #24 23rd Feb 2012, 07:16 PM

Life wasn't meant to be easy to quote a former PM.

I arrived hime today after it had been raining most of the day to find a lot of water on the floor of the shed. This was after I sealed around the floor of the shed with silicone yesterday. Seems I am turning it into a swimming pool. That is the problem of moving a shed without disassembling it and rolling it to the new position. Now I might have to seal the roof to make sure water is not coming in from the top. When the water dries out inside I will give it the hose test and find the source. I might be able to apply a liquid membrane over the top of the roof if it is not too expensive to buy. I really don't want to spend a lot more money buying a new shed. Anyway I can't line it until I fix the water entry source. More silicone from Bunnings and a thicker layer around the base as well might be an option if it is coming in from underneath. What a pain.

I thought about the plasterboard lining inside but I think it will be too heavy for such a light shed and as Bob said, will only crack with any movement. I also thought that I might put a layer of blueboard outside the shed on the side I want to really reduce the noise with the insultation still inside. The board will not be visible as it will be up against the trees on the boundary line side.

If it comes to the crunch I will put the bloody thing down and build a timber and blueboard shed, lining it properly while I do it. All these delays is stopping any pen turning.

BazzaDLB · #25 23rd Feb 2012, 09:53 PM

Thanks Bob for the info re lining your shed with plasterboard.

I think it is the way I'll go when I eventually get around to doing mine. It is Titan 6mx4m and I think it will handle the weight of the board.

Cheers

Bazza B

Pariss · #26 24th Feb 2012, 09:47 AM

Hey Greg, if you haven't already done so, use Sikaflex to seal around the shed base. It will last 100 times longer than Silicone, and won't ever let go.

plantagenon · #27 24th Feb 2012, 10:21 PM

Pariss

Unfortunately, I have already used the cheaper Bunnings product. Its pouring with rain here at the moment so I checked out the shed this afternoon. Observations - there was moisture (condensation) on the inside of the roof which might suggest a lack of ventilation; and the water seemed to be coming from the floor level.

Do you think a layer of Sikaflex on the inside and a further thicker layer of the Bunnings stuff on the outside at the bottom might solve the problem?

I am also going to seal the outside of the roof with a paint on sealer and put a slightly larger capping on the peak of the roof. I was hoping this might help in solving the condensation problem. I really have no idea as I don't know a lot about building. Irrespective I will have to line the walls with plastic, a thin blue board or something else to keep the condensation away from the insulation and plywood.

Apart from hoping for another 7 year drought, I need to do something to waterproof the shed so the machinery is not destroyed by water or condensation

Maybe its time to rip it down and build a timber shed

Any ideas

greg

BobL · #28 24th Feb 2012, 10:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by plantagenon

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Irrespective I will have to line the walls with plastic, a thin blue board or something else to keep the condensation away from the insulation and plywood.

It's not a problem if the insulation touches the underside of the roof or walls. That is in fact a good thing as it stops moist air making contact with the metal and condensing out the water/ That is a major benefit of insulation.

plantagenon · #29 28th Feb 2012, 10:00 AM

I think I have solved the leaks in the shed. They were coming from underneath as the slab is larger than the shed and water wasn't draining away properly. I bought a couple of bottles of Sika Boom AP which is a spray on expandable foam. That sealed all the gaps in the bottom. I trimmed it about 1/2 hour after spraying it and when it dried I put a layer of silicon along the base. So far, so good - its keeping the water out. The next job for the weekend is the lining of the shed.

BobL · #30 28th Feb 2012, 10:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by plantagenon

I think I have solved the leaks in the shed.

Good to hear.