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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
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    Default The Great L-Shaped Shed build of 2014!

    Getting quotes etc for an L-shaped shed isn't easy! For some reason all the recognised companies only want to build squares or rectangles.
    Given the wedge-shaped block I live in, an L-shape makes the best use of the rear corner of the block. I've managed to find one shed supplier who will do it, but he's proposing ordering 3x rectangular sheds from 'head office' and essentially bolting them together and cladding around the lot.

    The DCP says I can have a maximum of 70sq meters but as that would also be allowed for a 500sqm block, and I'm on 872sqm, I'm planning on 126.5 sqm shed.
    I've had the head of town planning from my local council come to visit, and we discussed the plans. He's said in principle I should be able to successfully get 120sqm through (as long as my 'statement of environmental impact' addresses all relevant concerns with breaching the DCP). Since that discussion I've added another 2.5m x 2.5m 'washroom' (toilet, hand basin and shower) section to the plan.

    A quick visit to my local Sydney Water 'quick check' agent shows I have a sewer just inside the shortest boundary extending it's zone of influence to 4.5 from the boundary. A verification call to a 'water services coordinator' suggests it's more like 3.5m but they are just more items to address in a long list of challenges.

    shed with 2.5m x 2.5m lean-to (front).jpgshed with 2.5m x 2.5m lean-to (internal top view).jpgshed with 2.5m x 2.5m lean-to (internal).jpgshed with 2.5m x 2.5m lean-to (rear).jpg

    First questions (of many over the next 6-12 months ;-)
    1. I've requested a 150mm thick slab 32mpa, and the price quoted is:
    *Slab Provide 126.26 square meter concrete slab to specifications 150mm thick 32mpa concrete with SL72 mesh and including pump hire. - $18,939.00.
    That works out at $150 per square metre !
    That seems pretty high to me. How does everyone else's experience here stack up?

    2 I've requested the quote to include insulation to all walls and ceiling, and the price quoted is:
    NOTE: To provide Polyair Unicell Reflective Insulation to the roof is $2,395.00 and to the walls $2,895.00.
    Thoughts here? re price, and also brand/type of insulation quoted?

    Total quote is around $53K (including GST) for everything.
    I was hoping for significantly less, but I can't see what options I've got.
    Other quotes were for a standard rectangular shed (roof pitch running front-rear), with a lean-to section on the left side. I don't fancy this option as the wall height at the end of the lean-to is around 2.4m. I want the full 3m max allowed wall height all around.

    Thoughts here? What else should I be asking (besides how can I get this design cheaper)??

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  3. #2
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    Default

    That quote actually seems pretty reasonable to me, my father-in-laws wood shop (6 x 9 steel shed) cost around $20k fully built, and yours is significantly larger.

    Also because yours is a "non-standard" shape, I expect there is a significant bump in costs for that.

  4. #3
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    Default

    The price is in the respectable average range.
    Looking at you design, nothing standard, dont expect it to cost less than quoted, remember "YOU GET WHAT YOU ARE PREPARED TO PAY FOR"
    Cheap price, poor quality/workmanship and the usual "I didnt quote for the wasamethingy or the wingwong", thats an extra $5000-00.
    You get what Im saying and the other replies are saying.
    The person who never made a mistake never made anything

    Cheers
    Ray

  5. #4
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    Jan 2009
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    Brisbane
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    Default

    There are about 18M3 of concrete in that slab, without an allowance for beams and footings which could add up to half as much again, certainly one third more. Thats about $5000.00 just for the mud. Plus excavation, plus boxing, plus steel, plus footing and beam frames, plus machine hire to dig the holes, plus dump fees for the spoil, plus the wages of the dudes putting it in. Pretty fair me thinks. I did 110 M2 125mm coloured concrete driveway a while ago for a friend and charged them $115 a SQ. Should have charged $150 like I usually do though.

    Also, buying three sheds and making it up seems like an awful waste. I'd probably get the gable part of the shed designed as portal frame and make the rest from Rondo. It'd be cheaper and less waste.

    Cheers
    Bevan
    There ain't no devil, it's just god when he's drunk!!

    Tom Waits

  6. #5
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    Dundowran Beach
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    Default

    I think Bevan has made some useful suggestions regarding the shed design.

    I personally do not like the idea of doing it the way your shed man suggests.

    How much of the work can you do yourself?? That will cut some of the cost.

  7. #6
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
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    nsw
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    Default

    I reckon I can figure out how to erect it (it ain't rocket science) but manpower is the issue. My brother's a tradie too and if he was in sydney I reckon we could tackle the assembly ourselves, but family commitments rule out him being able to help. That leaves me having to pay to have it assembled.

    I've got no idea what rondo is, but am open to any suggestions to try to get the price lower, as long as that doesn't translate to a shed looking like it was just thrown together. The portals will need to be able to support a fair weight hung from them, and the machinery weighs a fair bit, so am all good with up-speccing the concrete, but I guess I wasn't really expecting it to cost quite that much.

  8. #7
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    Default

    I would build it using a pine frame & trusses either cut on site or by a frame builder and clad it with whatever floats your boat. Unless you have a specific need a 100mm slab is adequate. If I were to go that way I would first buy a whole lot of second hand windows and doors and then spec the frame to suit saving money that way.
    CHRIS

  9. #8
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    Feb 2003
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    back in Alberta for a while
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by TimberNut View Post
    The DCP says I can have a maximum of 70sq meters but as that would also be allowed for a 500sqm block, and I'm on 872sqm, I'm planning on 126.5 sqm shed.
    I've had the head of town planning from my local council come to visit, and we discussed the plans. He's said in principle I should be able to successfully get 120sqm through (as long as my 'statement of environmental impact' addresses all relevant concerns with breaching the DCP). Since that discussion I've added another 2.5m x 2.5m 'washroom' (toilet, hand basin and shower) section to the plan.
    normally, you are allowed to have buildings on 50% of a block's area. Counting the house (sometimes measured as the area under the eves) how much of the 872 sq.m will you be covering?

    Quote Originally Posted by TimberNut View Post
    A quick visit to my local Sydney Water 'quick check' agent shows I have a sewer just inside the shortest boundary extending it's zone of influence to 4.5 from the boundary. A verification call to a 'water services coordinator' suggests it's more like 3.5m but they are just more items to address in a long list of challenges.
    do you have to, or are you supposed to, build so Sydney Water can access the sewer from inside your property

    Quote Originally Posted by TimberNut View Post
    Other quotes were for a standard rectangular shed (roof pitch running front-rear), with a lean-to section on the left side. I don't fancy this option as the wall height at the end of the lean-to is around 2.4m. I want the full 3m max allowed wall height all around.
    why? what's so important about 3.0m at the end of the lean-to?

    also 2.4m high walls should help in terms of building close to the boundary. Normally there's an inclined plane from the boundary that your building has to stay below in order to be complying.


    TIP
    talk to your neighbours, and get their thoughts now, before your plans become too advanced
    regards from Alberta, Canada

    ian

  10. #9
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    Default

    normally, you are allowed to have buildings on 50% of a block's area. Counting the house (sometimes measured as the area under the eves) how much of the 872 sq.m will you be covering? [/QUOTE]

    this aspect you are referring to is the 'floor space ratio' as defined in the DCP. Just one of many points I need to comply with. My current house is only a small 2-bedroom house and even with the proposed shed I'm still well under the 50% limit. I discussed this with the town planner as well, and you can now go way beyond the 50% but you need to make reference to the 'complying development codes' applicable to your region. These allow for ratios much higher than 50% so this won't be an issue.
    There are other factors like shadowing that also need to be factored in, but I've already done shadow diagrams in Sketchup and given the way I've got the roof falling, and that only 1 wall runs parallel to any boundary (right hand side) and the rest are all set back 1-3 metres due to the weird wedge shape, this won't be a problem.

    do you have to, or are you supposed to, build so Sydney Water can access the sewer from inside your property [/QUOTE]
    All inspection points are in neighbours properties not mine, so won't be an issue there. The Water Services Coordinator said that at worst I'll have to add some piers where I'm inside the zone of influence. The only structure going over 95% of the sewer that is in my block, will be the concrete apron around the outside of the shed. If they want to dig that up at any point in the future, at least it won't require any shed demolition.

    why? what's so important about 3.0m at the end of the lean-to? [/QUOTE]
    well, 126.25 sq meters in my book only JUST qualifies as a shed. If it was up to me I'd build at least twice that (am I being a 'shed snob' here?). You can never have enough shed space. I know a lot of guys work out of tiny sheds, and I've been working out of a single car garage for the last 15 years, but now's my chance to build what I want. And what I want is every square centimeter the council will allow. That extends to height of walls. The higher the walls, the more space to hang tools/cupboards or store timber etc. If the DCP allows for it, I want it. If I thought I could get 4.2m wall heights through, then I'd be doing that.

    also 2.4m high walls should help in terms of building close to the boundary. Normally there's an inclined plane from the boundary that your building has to stay below in order to be complying.
    see above - DCP allows for 3m. Orientation keeps me away from boundaries on all sides bar 1, and that wall remains 3m for it's full length (ie no gable on that side), and shadows don't fall in that direction due to orientation of the block.

    TIP
    talk to your neighbours, and get their thoughts now, before your plans become too advanced[/QUOTE]
    The town planner said the same. I've spent the last 3 weeks prepping the neighbours for what's coming. So far, no concerns raised.

  11. #10
    Join Date
    Sep 2012
    Location
    Coffs Harbour
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    Default

    Just got the final quote through for my shed.
    22x11 with a 6m garaport, 5.5m awning 28m long, 5.5m eave height and 120sqm mezzanine.
    242 sqm inside ( not including mezzi ), 462 sqm of 150mm 32 mpa F82 mesh with 300 x 300 thickened edge beam, piers and heavy reo. Yep, overkill.
    Class 1A shed ( temp accomodation on the mezzi ), bloody engineers
    Shed is still bolted to slab with dynabolts I might lose the shed in a cyclone but that slab will be there in 200 years

    118K all up not including earthworks
    Concrete was 45.5K which equates to $98 sqm inclusive of steel, pump and cartage.

    Should give you something to compare with.
    And yes, build the biggest, badest shed you can. You only get one go at it.

    Cheers
    Last edited by Barterbuilt; 21st June 2014 at 08:01 AM. Reason: Add size importance

  12. #11
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    This may just be my experience and of not a great deal of help in your situation.
    I was looking to erect a garage on my property and found a pre-built shed 10m x 8.5m made from Aussie steel on E-Bay.
    It was third hand and bought then dismantled by a guy who wanted to erect it in his suburban backyard. Only problem was his local council decided it was too big for his block.
    I was able to buy it from him already stacked and 'numbered' by the guy who hoped to use his numbering system to make it easier to erect.
    I had to use two trucks, (1x 3 t & 1x 2t) plus a few extra hands to load and deliver to my place then unload everything which we achieved and were drinking beers on a heap of steel frames by 5pm that arvo for a total cost for his EBay asking price of $5,000.00.
    The slab and piers were excavated (along with my telephone line) and the slab layed by a local guy who did the best concrete slab I have ever seen for just over $6,000. Before ordering the concrete I was given the option of increasing the MPa to 32 by adding an extra bag or so of cement /metre which I gladly took.
    it's been there now for 5 years with it's first use being the reception hall for my daughter's marriage. The surface is still crack free and beautifully smooth.
    BTW, I hired another local 'garage' guy who erected it to my design for $3,000.

    Sorry if I got carried away.
    Bob

  13. #12
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    There has been progress in the last month.

    I had lots of fun with Sydney Water due to building near the sewer line. Once I reviewed lots of DA's on the councils website I worked out how all documentation had to be laid out. I completed the plans and submitted them to my local Sydney Water 'Quick Check Agent' for 'stamping'. As expected, they refused them saying I was inside the 'zone of influence' for the sewer at the rear. They referred me to a Water Services Co-ordinator with a 'dolfin number'. I was now officially in their system. I got various quotes from different Water Services Co-ordinator companies, and the upshot was that one wanted ~$450 to 'stamp the plans' but I had to get my own pegout. The other was $285 to 'stamp the plans' and $770 for the pegout.

    I ended up finding someone to do the pegout for $350 cash, and then took that plan to the 2nd Water Services Co-ordinator company and they stamped the plans for $285. This was a bit of a pain because all they did was say the zone of influence is 3.5m and therefore I'm outside it so no piers or sewer lining required.

    So, $635 later my plans are stamped saying I don't need to worry about the sewer. Why the Quick Check Agent reckons the zone of influence is 4.5m and the Water Services Co-ordinator reckons it's only 3.5m baffles me, but either way I have an official stamp so not my problem any more. If the Quick Check Agent came to the same conclusion instead of $635 it woulf only have cost me $25!! I tried 2 different ones but they both calculated 4.5m hence more hurdles to jump.

    Now the DA has been submitted so it's a waiting game now.

    I've been to visit the neighbours with copies of the plans - still no rumblings of any concerns other than lots of 'geez thats a big shed!'

    I had trouble getting a guy with an excavator to come and remove the old concrete path and 10cu meters of rubbish we'd collected around our block. Several no-shows despite an agreed quote and date to do the work, so I told him to ..... and hired a 3.5 tonne excavator and learned to drive it myself. It made for a fun weekend!! The first 10cu m skip bin filled, and a 7.5cu m one to replace it, and we filled that too, and ended up about 1cu m short.

    Aside from the remaining rubble pile, and one hell of a messed up backyard, the only negative is a broken finger (the wife dropped a concrete slab on it).

    Now we wait to see how council deals with the DA. Meetings with the head Town Planner, and sending him my Statement of Environmental Effects to review, prior to official submission, really helped. He said 'in principle it'll be ok' but it has to go to a full vote of council because I'm breaching the DCP by asking for 126.25sq m instead of the maximum of 70sq m.

    I'm trying not to get my hopes up because this shed is 10+ years in the waiting, and if they reject it as too big I don't know what the next move is, but I've done all I can to stack the cards in my favour. Will post pics of the yard soon.

  14. #13
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    FenceFurniture is offline The prize lies beneath - hidden in full view
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    Surely it's the "Zone of Effluence" they'd be concerned about?
    Regards, FenceFurniture

    COLT DRILLS GROUP BUY
    Jan-Feb 2019 Click to send me an email

  15. #14
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    sounds like a rort to me
    regards from Alberta, Canada

    ian

  16. #15
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    DA is progressing - Council's website shows that they've completed the 'neighbour notification' part. I'm guessing that means that they've sent copies of the plans to all the neighbours. I'll check with them in the next few days to see what's been sent out. I took copies of the plans to all the neighbours already and no-ones worried about it, so it's all good so far.

    I've jut receive a quote for the concreting and at 32mpa, 150mm thick slab with SL82 mesh it's around $125 per sq metre including excavations (but not tipping fees) which is better than previous quotes.

    No word from council yet so I don't know if another site inspection will be required.

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