Thread: Shed build

Insects will find a way in no matter how well its sealed, as long at it keeps the snakes out, as they always give you a bit of a scare, and its not great for the shed to use a 20 or 12 gauge to remove them.

I can't remember the Sika number for the stuffed used for concrete joints for commercial building, its believe it is UV rated and it was used on our apartment block to stop the water going through to the basement.

Is welding and expoy flooring an issue? i read somewhere it stuffs the expoy.

I'm looking at Expoy for my new shed in 3-4 weeks after the mezzanine floor is installed.

Originally Posted by bryn23

Insects will find a way in no matter how well its sealed

...

Is welding and expoy flooring an issue? i read somewhere it stuffs the expoy.

I'm looking at Expoy for my new shed in 3-4 weeks after the mezzanine floor is installed.

If the bottom is sealed, then at least only the truly determined little buggers will have to climb to to top of the wall to get in.

I would expect epoxy to be affected by weld spatter, and grinding spatter. Grinding spatter from panel work will embed into window glass on a nearby car, you can feel it with your fingernail. A sacrificial mat under the work area ( Lino...) would spare most of the floor.

Aliphatic urethanes may be more resistant. Polishing the concrete may be an alternative.

Got the back wall clad yesterday. Due to the bit of shading from trees the laser could be used for the secondary girts, and doing it late afternoon, the laser was also used for the fixing line. Middle row up, top and bottom yet to do.

Started on the front wall doorway. The corrugated cladding needs to fall on the doorway columns with enough of the valley to screw fix. This required some adjustments and shimming of the girts to doorway columns fit and general faffing around, and reversion to imperial measurement given that corrugated iron is still 3" pitch. The other consideration is to have the cladding sheets symmetrical working from the centreline of the front wall outwards (in order to get symmetrical corrugations on the doorway sides.

Made the 2 footplates for the doorway columns, and eventually drilled the holes in the concrete for the Dyna bolts; Matabo impact drill clutch kept slipping, had to resort to the Fein, which gave up again - drills seems are currently a persistent source of problems ( corded or cordless).

Squaring the column to the front face was a bit tricky, given the position of clamps... thought I had it, but on re-examination this morning, it is a mm or two out of co-axial; I can just see it. I then thought to clamp a 600mm or so length of RHS to the inner face, so that it acts as an extended pointer, much easier to see the deviation, and measure. A square across the inside face to mezzanine beam should have worked, but maybe something moved on tacking. Might have to get more determined on the clamping.

Originally Posted by node105

If the bottom is sealed, then at least only the truly determined little buggers will have to climb to to top of the wall to get in.

I would expect epoxy to be affected by weld spatter, and grinding spatter. Grinding spatter from panel work will embed into window glass on a nearby car, you can feel it with your fingernail. A sacrificial mat under the work area ( Lino...) would spare most of the floor.

Aliphatic urethanes may be more resistant. Polishing the concrete may be an alternative.

For all the benefits of Expoy, its hard not to do it, especially when the shed hasn't got anything in it.

I like the idea of Lino, i'll got a job coming up needing commercial Lino, ill just order more, should last longer and protect the floor, and i won't trip over it like a heavy canvas welding floor protector.

Cheers

Originally Posted by bryn23

For all the benefits of Expoy, its hard not to do it, especially when the shed hasn't got anything in it.

I like the idea of Lino, i'll got a job coming up needing commercial Lino, ill just order more, should last longer and protect the floor, and i won't trip over it like a heavy canvas welding floor protector.

Cheers

The old (still current) Royal Adelaide Hospital Engineering used to be on the 5th floor above my lab years ago, and I used to be able to use their equipment occasionally for work project bits and pieces; lino floors, white cupboards with glass fronted sliding doors for taps and dies, immaculate everywhere, tall full width windows looking out directly into the tree canopy 30 feet away.


Lino mat would still require sealing the concrete underneath, otherwise even slight moisture would give rise to mould.

Lino is a durable lining,

But I'd thinking of using the Lino mat if i was welding to protect the Expoy floor, It would be a cheap way to protect the Expoy from weld splatter and hot steel while grinding. (i don't plan on welding a lot, so it won't be inconvenient to remove and store.

i'd just throw it in the sheet panel rack while not in use, simples

I've seen what happens when linoleum/ Vinyl is stuck on bare concrete, its not pretty if damp is an issue.

Linoleum is made from natural materials, Vinyl flooring is 100% synthetic (People called vinyl flooring Lino for some reason, maybe because it looks similar)

Just found this thread - awesome work on the shed so far. I love the mezzanine level - it should be a great space when it's done!

I don't know if you're still tossing up ideas for the water-sealing at the bottom of the walls, but one option might be to use some plastic equal angle, and just silicone it to the floor inside the base of the wall. This won't stop wildlife due to the corrugated cladding, but will stop water from running or splashing in during big downpours. It might be less work than installing full flashing.

Lined up the second doorway column, used an extended bit of rhs, and a string line dropped from a mezzanine joist to check the column co-axiality to the centreline. Surprisingly, with no breeze, reading half a mm difference between the near and far ends off set from the stringline is possible.


Marked the location of the footplate holes with a transfer punch which leaves a clean dint in the concrete; forgot to lay a piece of masking tape, but easy to see the impression. Drilled the 2 holes accompanied by much slipping of the drill bits in the Metabo. Seemed to hold the 10mm better than the 6mm. Sounds over the top to vacuum out the dust from the bores, but the Ramset instructions on the card suggest it. Cos I have one lying around, I have included a pic of a slightly larger than usual Hilti bolt.

Made the mistake of tacking top and bottom of the column before bolting down the footplate, so have a half mm or so that allows the column to swing in space ( well its not in contact with the pad). So will have to release the bottom tacks tomorrow, bolt down and re-tack.

I had ordered a small 12V Makita DF032DSAE brushless hex driver/drill last week, in frustration with the Fein working/not working, in order to finish the roof zips on the walls. Tried it on the Metal Teks fixing the secondary girts (1.6) to the primary girts (3mm) and it appears to drive the screws home ( predrilled 3mm), which the 14.4V Fein couldn't manage. Seemingly gutsy little driver, and light. '12V is a bit of a interpretation, 10.8 base in reality. Anyhoo, it works. Good to have a quick change chuck too.



Surfdabbler: thanks for the suggestion re plastic angle, haven't come across synthetic angles, your right it would have a gap, which would have to be 'back-filled' with foam. The plastic would be an alternate to aluminium angle, and probably cheaper. It would make a good dam wall too, for a solid moat of self levelling concrete.

Wasn't happy with the alignment of the doorway columns, so untacked and had another go. This time (3rd time) clamped 2 spreaders top and bottom to establish the same with (980mm) precisely, and with the spreaders in full contact with the column inner face, that the 2 columns were parallel to each other.
Getting plumb in to planes for each column, and parallel to each other, with the right step off forwards to have the secondary girt flush, and the columns coaxial to the centreline of the shed, was proving to be a few more degrees of freedom) in a mathematical sense) than was easy to control. I had previously taken the approach of aligning and tacking one column, then aligning the other to it. But there always seemed to be a couple of mm wrong in some aspect.

The spreaders were composite of 3 bits each that were offcuts and just happened to add to precisely the right width; it was a sign! (pic 1_spreader).
While the front faces of the columns were set to a stringline across the front wall, it was a slightly rough 'measurement'. The laser was aligned to an offset mark at each end of a mezzanine floor joist (which are true normal to the front transverse beam; pic 2_laser_align), and to alignment marks on each end of one of the bits of 40x40 components of the spreader (3_extension_alignment_marks). After a bit of juggling to get an appropriate offset, this worked very well.

The primary girts could then be welded to the columns, with appropriate offset fore and aft to accomodate the secondary girts, and needing some shims at the outer ends as this was a second fit-up accomodating the need to get the corrugations to land on the columns at a particular point.

I cut and tacked in some bracing, and started to final weld in the girts, bracing and columns.
With about 5 welds to go the MIG started spluttering; out of gas! The partly used E2 Argoshield had lasted the full shed build. Will have to finish off with stick.

A hot week this week, mostly around 37degC

The sheets covering the doorway had to be cut longitudinally; no fun by hand. A preliminary hack cut followed by narrow trims; flat sheet is simple, but corrugated won't 'peel' away if there is too much shape in the offcut. The Bosch nibblers failed miserably longitudinally due interference with the foot plate. If I was doing it again, I would probably align 2 sheets to each doorway edge, then fill in across the top with short sections, rather than cut half a doorway out of each of 2 sheets.

The edges as they lay to the door opening still need a final trim in situ.

Also fitted the end sheets on each side wall to close the c. 200mm gaps. I was going to cut these longitudinally to avoid too much overlap, and may yet do this later, if I get a pair of power shears. Too much overlap can lead to wicking and corrosion as I understand it.

Moved in my small vertical steel rack, and decanted the stored steel off the stillage outside to inside, and a bit of general clean up of the long suffering excuse for lawn.

It feels like a shed!

Cutting a sheet in the valley is quite easy. Use a hand saw???? The last point by the handle is what is required, grab the top of the handle in the right hand and the other end in the left hand, or vise versa if you're a south paw. The right hand press down and with the left pull the saw, scoring the bottom of the valley, slowly for the first score to keep it straight. Several goes might be required to give it a decent score, then fold the sheet back and forth till it breaks on the score line.
Got taught this trick by a builder when I was 16.
Kryn

Hi there. Sorry to intrude.

Ive built a few sheds over the years but more so have witnessed many and Sorry to say, without meaning to sound blunt, unless you do the base flashing job properly, It'll fail. Any talk of sticking a flashing on with silicone etc is never a long term seal. Especially with the inside walls cladded and enable to see any water entering maybe being absorbed by insulation or the like??

Other than the concrete slab being done after the build which is more common in larger sheds, the slab is normally poured to the dimensions of the shed as the plan shows the outside of all top hat or purlins on the walls. The sheet cladding then overhangs the slab by 75mm roughly.

In your case, driving rain blown onto the wall will come in like a flood. A stuck on angle or the like won't last for long. Ideally, the best and cheapest option would be cutting off the outer concrete totally or rebating that outer section slightly at the purlin line before cladding would have been preferred. Alternatively, cutting a 20 mm deep slot with an angle grinder, just back from this line all around the building, installing a straight flashing into the slot thats pre filled with sikaflex. The cladding would lay over this. This flashing needs to be durable and long lasting such as stainless steel/aluminium ($$$) or poly garden edging, the stuff that is around 2mm thick (Not the poly flashing thats about 0.5mm) Either way, these needed doing before cladding so ?

I haven't really looked at what the slab was like around the entries. Roller door, PA door? They should also be tapered off towards the outside or a rebate. There was one job I seen where the concreter failed to do this. Just a big flat slab. The owners had to get him back to cut out the concrete back in behind the entries and re pour with concrete with a step-down or ramp. Beforehand, the water used to flood in under the roller door which are set back in from the slab edge so the rain hitting the door flowed down on the slab and inside. at times flooding 75 % of the shed.

Hope you can sort out a solution, Good luck

OZKA

Originally Posted by ozka

Hi there. Sorry to intrude.

Ive built a few sheds over the years but more so have witnessed many and Sorry to say, without meaning to sound blunt, unless you do the base flashing job properly, It'll fail. Any talk of sticking a flashing on with silicone etc is never a long term seal. Especially with the inside walls cladded and enable to see any water entering maybe being absorbed by insulation or the like??

Other than the concrete slab being done after the build which is more common in larger sheds, the slab is normally poured to the dimensions of the shed as the plan shows the outside of all top hat or purlins on the walls. The sheet cladding then overhangs the slab by 75mm roughly.

In your case, driving rain blown onto the wall will come in like a flood. A stuck on angle or the like won't last for long. Ideally, the best and cheapest option would be cutting off the outer concrete totally or rebating that outer section slightly at the purlin line before cladding would have been preferred. Alternatively, cutting a 20 mm deep slot with an angle grinder, just back from this line all around the building, installing a straight flashing into the slot thats pre filled with sikaflex. The cladding would lay over this. This flashing needs to be durable and long lasting such as stainless steel/aluminium ($$$) or poly garden edging, the stuff that is around 2mm thick (Not the poly flashing thats about 0.5mm) Either way, these needed doing before cladding so ?

I haven't really looked at what the slab was like around the entries. Roller door, PA door? They should also be tapered off towards the outside or a rebate. There was one job I seen where the concreter failed to do this. Just a big flat slab. The owners had to get him back to cut out the concrete back in behind the entries and re pour with concrete with a step-down or ramp. Beforehand, the water used to flood in under the roller door which are set back in from the slab edge so the rain hitting the door flowed down on the slab and inside. at times flooding 75 % of the shed.

Hope you can sort out a solution, Good luck

OZKA

Hi Ozka, not intruding at all.

I do get what you mean by the possibility of any water entry in the future, say when sealant had degraded, then wicking up insulation from the bottom.
The insulation will be rock wool on the outer, then a inside layer of Foilboard. I had planned to only install the rock wool from the bottom girts upwards, for just that reason. The bottom girt is 300mm off floor level.
The Foilboard ( styrene sheet), is not going to suffer from some water ingress if there were any.


Thinking about the long term integrity of sealants, no matter how respectable the brand, is one reason I am still seriously favouring a inside border of self levelling concrete. There will be a perimeter of 16mm ID aluminium channel flush with the inner face of the columns, that will locate the melamine lining sheets, and keep them off the actual concrete surface. This could easily act as a moat to pour in a few mm of self levelling concrete up to the interior face of the cladding, so a 10mm wide band or so; basically just like doing the cladding, then pouring the slab inside. The slurry would need to be thick enough to not flow through the gap, or thing laterally, allow it to and raise the level of the grated channel 5mm and float out to that.

The slab was done prior to the build, in order to provide a surface for tooling and fabrication.


It would have been FAR preferable to have a 20mm step around the perimeter, in order to place the sheets against, the concreter I used couldn't manage it unfortunately.

Driving rain certainly would come in, if the gap between cladding and slab is not sealed. I agree. I had tested this a week ago by pouring buckets of water down the outside wall, there was certainly substantial ingress.
In the final incarnation, the effect of backwash will be less than what might be expected, as there will be grate surfaced drainage channel all the way around the perimeter, so only a 70mm wide strip of exposed slab between cladding and channel.

I had thought about getting the outer perimeter ground down, actually had lunch with a mate and a concreter friend of his that does that sort of remedial work. Doable.

The door is a PA. The adjacent lawn is going to be dug down and relaid as part of the paving leading to the shed, so there will be adequate fall away/ramping from the doorway.

Been out of action for a week and a half after stepping on a couple of exposed spikes in the garden, partially buried near the pop-up sprinklers; never seen them before. Had the first tetanus jab in 40 years or so.

Did manage to do some light duty painting of the underside of the mezzanine this week. Ceiling white to get a bit more reflection above the work areas, and joists painted for the sake of neatness. Red chromate for the moment cause that was lying around.

In the process of chasing down self levelling compounds and options for sealing the floor to wall cladding, came across 'Retroseal Domestic' (pic attached) a PVC profile ; link below. This looks like a very neat solution for many situations, but not quite mine, but it is definitely worth filing in the memory. They also supply a shaped PVC stripping for wall to roof cladding as well; probably will use that one.

Buy Retroseal Vermaseal, Seal gaps in your wall sheeting | Steel Sheds in Australia


I called Ardex today to get some clarification on which of their self levelling range would be appropriate, they suggested something slightlty different - A46 Rapid Hardening, Rapid Drying, Slump-Free Mortar for External Repairs, what he referred to as a 'ramping mortar'. Good for external use (the exposed portion around the gap outside), and trowell-able. $91 for a 20Kg bag. After ringing 6 places in Adelaide listed on their home page as being suppliers ( a search function that completely failed), the only one who even answered the phone, didn't stock it, didn't know the cost or bag size. A mob in Melbourne was far more helpful; I'll get it freighted over.