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  1. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Huon pine fan View Post
    Hi Graeme
    For my racking I went with 50mm gal fence posts for the uprights. There is a standard flange on the bottom, dynabolted to the floor, and the top is held in place by a standard saddle. The arms are again the 50mm post, around 450 long. They connect to the uprights via the two piece tees. ........
    Thanks Huon Pine Fan

    Another option right out of left field. Certainly looks rigid. I'll need to go and have a look at some of the fittings and to get some pricing......

    Cheers

    Graeme

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  3. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by justonething View Post
    I'd say that timber studs are perfectly fine but make sure they span from floor to ceiling. This will allow the timber studs to carry all the vertical load, and the dyna bolts are only there to stop the racks and their loads from tipping over.
    Thanks Justonething

    I don't agree with this assertion. The studs will certainly carry a lot of the load, but as the arms will radiate from the studs there must also be substantial torque forces in operation. The question then becomes - How significant is this torque in relation to the 80 year old brick wall??? Probably OK, but I need to be sure, or as close to that as I can be.

    Metal piping fitted into stud seems like an inexpensive solution.
    Agreed.

    ...other people have made racks out of 20mm plywood bolted to either side of each stud.
    Not so sure. The ones that I have seen, the plywood width intrudes or reduces the available storage space.

    I would also some space to tie your sheets against the studs so they can stack upright to save space.
    Nice idea. I have been wondering about how to store sheet material without taking up too much space, yet leaving it flat and accessible. This might be the solution.

    the span between studs should not be more than 800 to cater for shorter lengths.
    The shorter lengths can go on a MDF/YT shelf. There is a cost consideration in the spacing - shorter space, more verticals, more $$'s.


    Cheers

    Graeme

  4. #18
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    Aug 2010
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    ACT
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    Hi,
    I took the easy way out, bought Triton wood racks, works for me.
    Regards
    Hugh

    Enough is enough, more than enough is too much.

  5. #19
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    May 2018
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    Melbourne
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    Hi Graeme
    Actually I think that I used 40mm tube on the arms. If you want I can check and confirm the sizes and take some better photos this weekend when I am at my shed.

  6. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Huon pine fan View Post
    Hi Graeme
    Actually I think that I used 40mm tube on the arms. If you want I can check and confirm the sizes and take some better photos this weekend when I am at my shed.
    Hi HPF

    I would appreciate that. Most of the cyclone wire fences that I can think of have the posts and rails of the same diameter - 50 mm ?

    Also, could you check the thickness of the walls in both the arms and posts (if possible). I am trying to build up a "gut feeling" for how much strength I need.


    Cheers

    Graeme

  7. #21
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    Default State of Progress

    Good Morning All

    First, I would like to again thank every one for the invaluable assistance provided so far. Many ideas that are new to me, and my learning curve has been steep. The present range of options that I am considering are:

    POSTS
    • angle steel, or
    • round galvanised steel fence post, or
    • timber stud.


    ARMS
    • angle steel, or
    • round galvanised steel fence post, or
    • square RHS steel tube, or
    • steel water pipe, or
    • timber stud.


    FASTENNING of arms to posts
    • weld - angle steel,
    • bolt - angle steel,
    • Insert - pipe or RHS,
    • glue and screw - timber.


    SHELVES
    • yellow tongue split into 2 x 450 mm.


    My final choice will depend on:
    • a more precise costing of each option, and
    • an assessment of my ability to achieve the necessary accuracy with the chose option. This may involve development of jig and/or forms to improve replication of precision.



    Cheers

    Graeme

  8. #22
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    Apr 2006
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    Default Cosmetic Considerations

    Hi Every One

    Although I have headed this as cosmetic Considerations they do include some consideration of functionality.


    STEEL COATING


    To prevent rust it will be necessary to coat any steel components. What would be best - KillRust, two-pot epoxy or something else?


    PADS ON ARMS

    If I decide to go with steel arms - angle steel, square tube or pipe - I am concerned about resting my precious timber on a metal surface, even a painted metal surface. Are my fears unfounded, or should I consider putting pads on top of the arms?

    One possibility is to make pads from 450 mm lengths of 90 x 35 pine stud. The drawing shows an insitu representation and a bottom view of a pine pad.

    Timber Pads.jpg

    With such timber pads, should I leave the timber raw or paint it?


    YELLOW TONGUE SHELVES

    Yellow tongue is not designed to be used with the edges exposed - vulnerable to damage plus aesthetics. I thought that I could add a timber cover strip.

    Yellow Tongue Shelving.jpg

    Cheers

    Graeme
    Attached Images Attached Images

  9. #23
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    Apr 2006
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    Hi Hugh

    $$$$'s and I like to DIY.


    Cheers

    Graeme

  10. #24
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    Feb 2016
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    Canberra
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    This seems like a colossal over-engineer?

    I saw an old article (a while ago) from Wandel where he load tested some shelves. They could take crazy-weight. This is the article, but I can't find the tests he did: https://woodgears.ca/shelves/

    I've some el-cheapo knock down shelves from bunnings and they take 750kg PER shelf....https://www.bunnings.com.au/pinnacle...-unit_p2582967 ... and these take 1000kg: https://www.bunnings.com.au/our-rang...-duty-shelving

    plus I see industrial and racking units all the time on Gumtree/Grays. There is a local group here that sells them all the time too: https://www.allbids.com.au/c/industrial-tools-building-supplies/racking-shelving (obviously a bit light on due to the break).

  11. #25
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    May 2018
    Location
    Melbourne
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    I got to my shed sooner than I thought. The arms are 40mm, the wall thickness is around 3mm. They are 400mm long. The tees are T5040. I can't measure the wall thickness of the uprights. I have 2 racks, one has upright spacing of 1000mm and the other 725mm. I don't have shelves which creates issues for shorter lengths of timber, you can end up with a bay with no timber. So if doing it again I would put in some more uprights, nothing to do with load though. No luck loading photos from my phone, I will try later from my pc

  12. #26
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    Thanks HPF

    A piece of MDF or yellow tongue laid over the arms willl create instant shelves for the short bits and other treasures.


    Cheers

    Graeme

  13. #27
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    Melbourne
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    Here are the photos which will hopefully help. The yellow tongue might be an idea to retrofit although I am not sure about moving all the timber!
    Attached Images Attached Images

  14. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by GraemeCook View Post
    The suggestion that I bolt the arms to the posts came from a retired metal fabricator friend. He mentioned that an inch of weld could hold 300 kgs if properly welded. He then went on to make some most insensitive comments about my welding skills - you think a right angle is any joint between 80 and 100 degrees, except when its another number - I am deeply wounded! He then went on that bolting together was more like woodwork, that I could make some jigs to ensure repeated accuracy, and that I was less likely to stuff it up. "But you are a creative buggar...."

    But the more I think about it, the more I think welding is the way to go, probably aided by one or more jigs. Repeated accuracy as regards spacing and angles is critical. Arms at 2º is the precision I need!
    Hi Graeme
    although it hurts your feelings, your retired metal fabricator mate is right.
    A good weld will hold lots of weight a poor weld almost nothing at all, and telling the difference between the two is more science than art.

    Unless you are an experienced welder -- and, let's face it, if you were you wouldn't be asking -- stick with bolting.
    and there's nothing wrong with using pinus radiata
    regards from Alberta, Canada

    ian

  15. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by woodPixel View Post
    This seems like a colossal over-engineer?
    Good Morning WoodPixel

    I am a little surprised by your comment, but you have made me think about what I am doing. The whole tenor of this thread has been to discover the appropriate level of engineering required for this project, at the most affordable price. But there are also a couple of constraints that must also be taken into account.

    First, the ceiling height is 3 m, say 2.9 m after I redo the floor, and I want to fill the entire wall with fairly close spaced racks and shelves. It is an absolute imperative that we maximise the amout of usable storage space on the racks/shelves.

    Second, the wall in question is an 80 year old double brick parapet wall. Thus it is shared with a neighbour and I do not want to upset him or damage his property, and there are legal issues.


    I saw an old article (a while ago) from Wandel where he load tested some shelves. They could take crazy-weight. This is the article, but I can't find the tests he did: https://woodgears.ca/shelves/
    Those light weight shelves look fine for three fairly low level shelves, widely spaced. But the stresses involved are quite different for eight or nine shelves on a post that is 3 metres high - much more torque, and we really don't know the ability of the 80+ year old bricks and mortor to resist that strain. I am yet to be convinced that it is a good idea to hang the shelves from the wall. Or even whether it is legally permissable.


    I've some el-cheapo knock down shelves from bunnings and they take 750kg PER shelf....https://www.bunnings.com.au/pinnacle...-unit_p2582967 ... and these take 1000kg: https://www.bunnings.com.au/our-range/storage-cleaning/storage/garage/heavy-duty-shelving.
    I have looked at those racks from Bunnings and elsewhere, but the posts in the front of the shelves make it too difficult to store and access long pieces of timber. I have a lot of timber at 4 metres and some up to 5.4 m. Theefore, the racks and shelves must be cantilevered. And the Bunnings racks that I looked at were only about 2 m high.


    plus I see industrial and racking units all the time on Gumtree/Grays. There is a local group here that sells them all the time too: https://www.allbids.com.au/c/industrial-tools-building-supplies/racking-shelving (obviously a bit light on due to the break).
    Good suggestion, but I have been watching Gumtree and local auction sites for about six months without any luck. Grays is useless, from my perspective, because of Bass Strait. In the interim I will continue watching.

    Commercially available (new) cantivered systems get very expensive very quickly, as soon as you start adding height. Many/most designed and engineered to withstand an intimate relationship with a forklift. I do not need that reserve strength.
    https://unirack.com.au/cantilever-drive-in-racking.html


    Our objective is to get a very fuctional racking and shelving system at an affordable price. If it fails - buckles, bends or bearks - then it is not functional. But I certainly do not want to pay for excessive strength.


    Fair Winds

    Graeme

  16. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Huon pine fan View Post
    Here are the photos which will hopefully help. The yellow tongue might be an idea to retrofit although I am not sure about moving all the timber!
    Only where needed!

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