Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 15 of 25
  1. #1
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Location
    Gold Coast
    Age
    53
    Posts
    1,092

    Default Handmade vs Purists

    This is one issue I'm frankly sick of and the other is the constant wining and bagging
    of our tool makers so I have decided to do a blog which addresses both issues and starts a campaign
    of awareness that will eventually put a stop to this ludicrous unethical behaviour.

    https://journeymansjournel.wordpress.com/2016/01/27/what-constitutes-handmade/

  2. # ADS
    Google Adsense Advertisement
    Join Date
    Always
    Location
    Advertising world
    Age
    2010
    Posts
    Many





     
  3. #2
    Join Date
    Dec 2014
    Location
    Willunga, Australia
    Posts
    735

    Default

    Interesting perspective and well written. The comparison of the quality hand tool price is also a valid one. I have gathered some very nice hand tools some if which are quality tools and are pure joy to use. I also have many older tools, mainly inherited from members of my family no longer with us. All of them are still perfectly serviceable in are being restored to their former glory. Paul Sellers is an interesting example and he is certainly an inspiration to me.

    Looking forward to your further thoughts.

    John

  4. #3
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Location
    Gold Coast
    Age
    53
    Posts
    1,092

    Default

    Thanks John this was a long time coming I hope it inspires other people to make similar posts and put an end to this charade.

  5. #4
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Location
    Melbourne
    Posts
    6,954

    Default

    May we have a link please

  6. #5
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    Bendigo Victoria
    Age
    80
    Posts
    16,560

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Simplicity View Post
    May we have a link please

    See post #1

  7. #6
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Location
    Melbourne
    Posts
    6,954

    Default

    [emoji106]

  8. #7
    Join Date
    Oct 2014
    Location
    Caroline Springs, VIC
    Posts
    1,645

    Default

    Machine made to me is anything with a fully automatic process. such as a CNC router, a 4 sided moulder, a thicknesser, dovetailer, round end tenoner, wide belt sander etc. The only thing a man has to do is pick up, put down on machine, wait, pick up, put down on pallet. gee, that doesn't say much about my trade...ah well

    handmade is anything which includes anything up to semi-automatic processes. semi-automatic can include tablesaws/panel saws, spindle moulder (with or without the use of a power feed), jointer, drill press, edge sanders, bandsaws, scroll saws etc etc. basically anything where you need to actually hold the timber and move the timber into the cutter using your own power.

    setting a sliding panelsaw's crosscut fence to be exactly 90 degrees to the blade, setting a length stop on that fence at the right spot and then moving the timber into the spinning blade to create a nice clean cut end at the right length and angle is no different to squaring the end of a board using a precision instrument such as a hand plane with a shooting board.

  9. #8
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Location
    Gold Coast
    Age
    53
    Posts
    1,092

    Default

    This is where I will have to disagree with you Kuffy, you cannot include a tablesaw, jointer or spindle moulder into the equation of handmade because it is isn't. Rip or crosscutting by hand is a lot different than just placing it on the table and feeding it through, same applies to other three. The bandsaw if used for rip and crosscuts then I wouldn't say that piece is entirely handmade but for shaping purposes yes I would same applies to the scrollsaw. The point being here is that your relying on your hands, your skill to do the work accurately without resorting to machinery to rip a board or joint an edge or face. What prompted me to write this blog was the ridiculous views these purists have and the pressure they put hand tool woodworkers under to adhere to the work guidelines they have set.

  10. #9
    Join Date
    Apr 2001
    Location
    Perth
    Posts
    10,803

    Default

    so I have decided to do a blog which addresses both issues and starts a campaign
    of awareness that will eventually put a stop to this ludicrous unethical behaviour.


    I think this rant is missing the point ... well, at least the point how I see it ... or perhaps I have a different perspective on what to rant about

    I do not have a problem with "hand made" and power tools together. Power tools are not evil. They are just tools.

    I use a lot of handtools - hell, I have a website that is pretty much dedicated to handtools - still, I use a lot of power tools as well. They are used for taking the raw timber and turning it into boards that are close to size. Hand tools then take over for joinery, shaping and detail work.

    So at point could I say my work is "hand made"? Is that a lie?

    I think the distinction between machine and hand tools reflects a lack of understanding about what constitutes craftsmanship. Perhaps one should substitute "craftsman made" for "hand made". The latter is meaningless to me. It says nothing of the craft that went into a piece of work. There are hand tool made pieces that are complete cr@p, as much as there are machine made pieces that are a dogs breakfast.

    What constitutes "craftsman made" for me is that a piece is correctly made: appropriate joinery (regardless of whether made by machine or hand), thoughtful use of grain-matching, balanced composition in thicknesses of parts, a design that is interesting and demonstrates an understanding of aesthetics and market demand ...

    I do prefer handcut dovetails to machine cut dovetails because they look better, and I do prefer a true mortice-and-tenon joint to a biscuit/dowel/domino joint because I am a traditionalist. What I rail at is the indiscriminate use of automation to make joinery because the Maker lacks the skills for anything else. Being a "craftsman" implies a mastery of tools (and design). Nevertheless, I am happy to use a tablesaw, even a power router if it is the tool of choice for a specific task. I love my combination jointer-thicknesser with the helix head. Still, I go out of my way to use a handtool where another will use a power router, such as shaping beads or other mouldings, because I love handtools, and not because they carry a superior label in that particular context.

    Perhaps explaining craftsmen and craftsmanship to others should be the goal here.

    Regards from Perth

    Derek
    Visit www.inthewoodshop.com for tutorials on constructing handtools, handtool reviews, and my trials and tribulations with furniture builds.

  11. #10
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Location
    Gold Coast
    Age
    53
    Posts
    1,092

    Default

    Thanks Derek for your input I always appreciate your thoughts and I do agree with you in much of what you have said and I think explaining the differences between the two as you mentioned would be a great blog for next time round. In the end what tools and means people use it's up to them, as along as they are enjoying their craft nothing else or anyone's idea of what 'real woodworking' is matters. As for me my hand tools are my preference it's what I enjoy to use, it's about the journey and not the end even though we all aspire to make a masterpiece. I have tried the whole tablesaw and jointer ordeal and I loathed it a short lived legacy of machine work but none the less I would never criticise anyone for using machinery just like I wouldn't appreciate someone criticising me for using hand tools.

  12. #11
    Join Date
    Feb 2003
    Location
    back in Alberta for a while
    Age
    68
    Posts
    12,006

    Default

    section1's opening quote
    “As it relates to woodworking, I’d say a purist is defined as a person who disapproves of any methods other than his own.”

    reminds me of another related quote
    “An environmentalist already has a house in the woods.”
    regards from Alberta, Canada

    ian

  13. #12
    Join Date
    Feb 2003
    Location
    back in Alberta for a while
    Age
    68
    Posts
    12,006

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by derekcohen View Post
    I think the distinction between machine and hand tools reflects a lack of understanding about what constitutes craftsmanship. Perhaps one should substitute "craftsman made" for "hand made". The latter is meaningless to me. It says nothing of the craft that went into a piece of work. There are hand tool made pieces that are complete cr@p, as much as there are machine made pieces that are a dogs breakfast.

    What constitutes "craftsman made" for me is that a piece is correctly made: appropriate joinery (regardless of whether made by machine or hand), thoughtful use of grain-matching, balanced composition in thicknesses of parts, a design that is interesting and demonstrates an understanding of aesthetics and market demand ...

    Perhaps explaining craftsmen and craftsmanship to others should be the goal here.
    I'm tending to agree with Derek on this.

    a construction in solid wood that mimics the flat pack design popularized by Ikea can not be classified as "hand made" no matter how many hours went into dimensioning the material by hand and flattening the final construction. Flat pack design with its knock down fittings does just not cut it as craftsman made.

    However, using the appropriate machine fitting (eg Lamello Clamex fittings) to solve an otherwise "impossible" design objective doesn't relegate the finished project to "machine made"

    likewise, it would be beyond grossly insulting to relegate Sebastian ErraZuriz's wave cabinet



    to the status of "machine made" and therefore somewhat inferior
    regards from Alberta, Canada

    ian

  14. #13
    Join Date
    Dec 2014
    Location
    Willunga, Australia
    Posts
    735

    Default

    We may be talking about different things here. I am not sure that we really are on different tracks just expressing a desire to do different things. I think we all love to watch people doing things "hand made" in the sense that they are using pre-industrial techniques and skills. See those videos of Japanese craftsmen who construct a house full of furniture using just a whittling knife (OK so I exaggerate slightly but you know what I mean) or that Moroccan guy who makes turned ornaments using a foot lathe, I am sure at some point we have all said "I wish I could do that" then realise that some of these people have honed their skills for many years as an apprentice to a master carpenter.

    I suppose my point is that some people love the process of using only non-powered tools to produce furniture and works of art from wood. The process is as important as the end product. For others using power tool short cuts to get to a certain point is perfectly fine, such as using a jointer and thicknesser to surface a board is fine. Then there are others who power all the way and rarely pick up a hand tool. No one is better or worse IMHO but simply different, depending on what you enjoy.

    To be honest I am a hybrid woodworker only because I lack the skill to s4s a board by hand. But I could never give up my chisels and planes, that is the enjoyment of crafting something with intimate contact with the wood from which I am constructing a piece. I think I gain the most enjoyment when I take a log cut from a tree and using as little power as possible craft something from it. Or take an unsightly piece of old roughed up timber and then make something beautiful.

    It seems to me that the actual tools and techniques are as much to do with personality as with philosophy. All hail all woodworking I say. Hand crafted, hand made, hybrid, power tool, more power to the maker whatever his or her predilection.

    John

  15. #14
    Join Date
    Dec 2014
    Location
    Willunga, Australia
    Posts
    735

    Default

    Oh, and as a post script, my first ever major woodworking project was when I was first married and I constructed a two seat and two by one seat lounge suite using pine from my local hardware with only hand tools. I used Stanley chisels, Irwin tennon saw, a wood rasp, sand paper and Stanley #4 hand plane. I did have some of my dad's old tools as well. I used mortise and tenon joinery. We had precious little money so I made do with what I had and it was fantastic fun to construct this furniture from design through to realisation using only hand tools.

    It was solid square and functional and lasted for many years and when we replaced it with a factory made leather suite was as solid as the day it was made. Looking back, despite the lack of skill and the flaws (that only I knew about) it is the piece of which I am most proud.

    John

  16. #15
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Location
    McBride BC Canada
    Posts
    3,543

    Default

    Purists often have their optic nerves connected to their distal orifices which gives them a really shirty outlook on life.
    One off is hand made and I refuse to admire you for wasting your time, hand-tooling the rough-out.
    You make a dozen, +/- 0.05mm and I'll walk on.

    I use power tools to chop down a piece of log for wood carving. Both gas and electric chain saws.
    Other power tools to rough out the basic shape. Skilsaws, Dremel SawMax/Rotozip, you name it.
    Gouges and mallet, maybe an elbow adze, maybe a coping saw.

    Then comes the pleasure of the finesse to make the wood show me the form.

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast

Similar Threads

  1. Handmade Saw Commission
    By Luke Maddux in forum Saws- handmade
    Replies: 5
    Last Post: 23rd December 2014, 12:16 AM
  2. Replies: 14
    Last Post: 4th January 2014, 09:22 PM
  3. My handmade bench
    By ac445ab in forum WOODWORK PICS
    Replies: 31
    Last Post: 13th November 2008, 07:41 PM
  4. Table Top Gaps -Finished - Purists Beware!
    By hap97 in forum RESTORATION
    Replies: 17
    Last Post: 29th June 2008, 10:05 AM
  5. Handmade tools
    By Andy Mac in forum WOODWORK PICS
    Replies: 5
    Last Post: 26th July 2005, 10:55 AM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •