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Thread: Handmade vs Purists
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15th November 2016, 03:47 PM #16
So I take it these so-called "purists" who shun power tools of any kind, also shun any timber that is cut by any powered saw. I hope they are taking their horse and buggy out into the bush, and using an axe and handsaws to recover their timber.
Don't get me wrong, I grew up in a house built by my Grandfather, full of beautiful furniture also made by him, I imagine most, or all of the timber he used was cut by hand, and he didn't have any power tools either. So I do appreciate "handmade/crafted".
But times are a changing, whether we like it or not.Brad.
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15th November 2016 03:47 PM # ADSGoogle Adsense Advertisement
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15th November 2016, 04:56 PM #17
What you consider time wasting I would consider it pure joy and skill building. We all work wood, how we choose to work it is our own affair.
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15th November 2016, 04:59 PM #18
Ironwood my response was to robson valley
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15th November 2016, 06:33 PM #19GOLD MEMBER
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I guess I don't know what's being referred to when you talk about people bagging out tool makers. I'm not really aware of anyone making undeniably better tools than Lie Nielsen or Lee Valley, Terry Gordon is about the most respectable dude ever, and all I ever hear about Vesper is how they're the greatest ever in the universe rah rah fireworks. So who are the people actively discouraging the use of these tools? I'm genuinely curious, and I think some perspective would help me appreciate the article.
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15th November 2016, 11:08 PM #20SENIOR MEMBER
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At what point does something become a machine?
Using a Yankee screwdriver is making use of mechanical advantage. Using a cordless screwdriver is taking advantage of chemical storage of electrical potential. Most of us would draw the line somewhere between those two, but at the end of the day, where you draw the line is pretty arbitrary. It's never truly a black-and-white kind of thing, it's a continuum, and each will label things along the continuum slightly differently.
I'm pretty sure most purists will allow that a Yankee screwdriver is a handtool, and following from that, that a foot powered table saw should count as "by hand". Would that still count if you had a helper doing the pedaling? Probably. And if foot power from a helper is "accepted", then what about a draught animal, perhaps a horse or a donkey? What about a water powered mill? If you still accept that, then how different is, for argument, solar powered electricity? It's just a means of turning a shaft to drive a blade, what difference does it make it it's muscle (yours or someone else's), water or electrons?
If you get that far, then all that's left to argue about is how the electricity is generated.
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17th November 2016, 06:47 AM #21GOLD MEMBER
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17th November 2016, 07:31 AM #22
I wonder what prompted Robson Valley to resurrect this thread?
my own take, is that hand made encompasses any object where the limitations of the available machinery have not been used to justify the design (and in this context, design includes the choice of joint.)
and conversely, machine made is any piece where the design is tied to the dictates of a particular machine cut joint.Last edited by ian; 17th November 2016 at 10:08 AM. Reason: clarified my second point as referring to machine made
regards from Alberta, Canada
ian
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17th November 2016, 07:45 AM #23GOLD MEMBER
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Ah, I didn't realize it was a resurrected thread. I guess it came up when I was just returning from the US last holiday season and I missed it. My bad on that.
I'm still interested in hearing what specifics prompted such a rant. I get the impression that the OP was attempting to relate to some kind of trend in the woodworking mindset of which I'm completely unaware. If anything, I feel like toolmakers are put on a very high pedestal. If Lie Nielsen released a video of Deneb whateverhisnameis making walking sticks with broken glass then I would have every expectation that my Instagram feed would be flooded with hickory branches and vintage coke bottles within the week. I've actually cancelled an order with a toolmaker in the past because I really just could not handle him repeatedly telling me his tools were "the best in the world". I feel like, if anything, the toolmakers actually have the ability to direct the market for their goods, and certainly are seeing little if any detriment based on negative reviews of their products by outspoken curmudgeons.
So I kinda felt left out in the rain here... What gives?
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17th November 2016, 11:00 AM #24
This post is 12 months old, I've learned a lot since this post in the value of keeping my opinions to myself. So to answer you respectively Luke - I would rather not.
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17th November 2016, 01:13 PM #25
Luke my post was in response to a problem that was getting out of hand or atleast was at it's peak 1 year ago and now I believe that it's toned down a bit and levelled itself out. Only with new people getting into woodworking do you still see it ongoing and it's no fault of their own and I would love to say who is biggest culprit in bagging tool makers just so they continue to have a strong hold on the market but I can't. I fear the loyalists backlash who are completely new to the woodworking arena and are clueless who mindlessly fight endlessly for these certain individual/s and therefore I choose to refrain from mentioning any one particular group or individual. Having said that the one I'm referring too is clear as day and a few on this forum has had running's with them, clear valid points has been offered with zero rebuttal because the points, this or these offenders make are baseless.
The corporate world is a ruthless destructive world and this is the approach that's being taken against tool makers in general which also played a part in the rapid price rising of antique and vintage tools. Many of these tools once upon a time could of been bought at a fraction of the price and one could of under $2000 purchased all the tools to start their careers or hobbies and now you would need double that amount. Simple H&R's only 2 or 3 years ago a set of 18 were selling for US$350 now they're double the amount. A Stanley antique rabbet plane is selling for approx. US$500 Lie Nielson is selling a brand new reproduction for US$375 so in my opinion tool makers are a vital part of our industry and quality makers like HNT, Vesper, LN and many out there deserve the respect that is being ripped from under them by these strategist who want to corner the market for themselves. If they left the scene, put out of business then we will fall at the mercy of antique dealers and there is no mercy there.
Then there are those purists who'll convince new comers to convert a motorised lathe into a foot pedestal one thinking that they're now using a truly handmade approach, they fail to see that it makes no difference whether that lathe has a motor or piece of rope attached to it that it's still handmade, obviously. Woodworking is logical and one needs to take a logical approach to it, if you don't have a lathe and cannot afford to buy a good quality one then make one but to convert a motorised lathe into a foot pedestal in order to appease the purists and avoid the backlash and fear of it not being branded as handmade is just ludicrous. Then on the other hand you have the machinists who like to make a mockery of those who prefer to work by hand only, this too is ludicrous. We're woodworkers and for most of us this is just a hobby and I want to enjoy this hobby of working wood the way I choose to work it without some clut laughing at me because I choose to rip a board by hand or even thickness one by hand. I choose to work the way I do because it suits me, I enjoy it and sure machinery would speed up the process but as one supplier asked me once when I was in business, what's the rush. Whether it takes you 1 week or 1 year to finish a project is never the point it's about enjoying the process. It's always about the journey and never about end.
I hope I have answered your question without naming names.
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