Thread: Centauro 450NL

As it stands in the shed currently. Also wondering about those bottom guides, not sure what wood was used in them previously, but possibly they need to be replaced with something, I see some people on the forums here use Graphite cool blocks...



and a pic of the top guides.



and another pic of the "bottom guides"

The current motor details are:
1.5 HP
50 Hz
2.2 A
415 V
GIRI/1' = 2800 (I assume thats Italian for RPM?)


So now I am just trying to work out the best way to get it hooked up in the shed, my challenge is that currently I only have single phase power available, in the future I may have 3 phase, but that's a few years away. So I have been looking at VFD (Variable Frequency Drives) Like at this page: Variable Frequency Drives - Phase Converter Information

I have been reading a few posts like this one : https://www.woodworkforums.com/f189/h...-supply-76115/

and am really just getting a bit lost, appreciate any advice anyone can give me. I won't be considering making my own phase converter or doing any wiring I'll get a sparky in for that. On that note, anyone have a recommendation for good sparkies for this sort of thing round Adelaide?

Cheers

It looks like a well shaped band saw! The extra blades look rusty. Hope someone will show up to help you out.

So now I have been looking into getting a VFD / VSD to run the bandsaw, primarly because I don't have 3 phase.

Here is a pic of the actual Motor in question. Just need to determine if it is wired in star or delta configuration now...
"Motors designed for star-delta starting will have 6 live terminals in their connection box." - reference from http://wiki.answers.com/Q/Should_a_3_phase_motor_run_on_star_or_delta

"Some motors are designed to be operated ONLY in star - they may have a label advising you of this, or they may have only one value of voltage and current on the nameplate. They will also usually have only 3 terminals inside the connection box."



and from the other side....



Found another sticker on the bandsaw indicating another name / brand that it might have been made under....

Lunghezza Nastro 450 / NL

Looks like a I may struggle with a VFD / VSD. I've sent a query over to the guys at: Drives Direct - Digital Phase Converters - Home Page to confirm if this will be the case or if I can just run a VFD/VSD.

Drives Direct were recommended as selling good quality equipment to me by another forumite.

Now to make up some new guides for the bootom and clean those top guides up.
I will make up some wooden guides, probably soaked in something that can enclose the blade for the bottom, and a new block for the table insert too. As well as some cleaning and sanding and such. Fun times ahead this weekend

Seems like it may be possible to reconfigure the motor from delta to star, will have to find a suitable motor joint in Adelaide to take the electric motor too. If I continue to pursue the VFD/VSD route. Otherwise it's upgrade the motor some and change it to single phase, still a bit torn about that.Variable speed on the saw could possibly be very handy.

This looks like it is already delta wired to me. Don't abandon the VFD route just yet. Odd that it is not listed on the compliance plate with 2 voltages. Someone who knows all about electric motors shoud be able to point you in the right direction.
Cheers

Example of a STAR Mode(415V) Connection

Example of a DELTA(220V) Mode Connection


As the motor is connected in Delta mode already, it would seem that to run a VSD / VFD (most interested in the VFD part I can use something like this over at drives direct:

You are looking at a 2 HP DUAL STAGE 220 Volts single phase to 415 Volts three phase inverter unit, for any other size please see my other items or our ebay SHOP ,

I see a few other threads where forum members are running these, I'm just not sold on how much benfit it would be on a bandsaw, there is a thread with some indicators that the VSD can be very useful in adjusting the fpm, feet per minute. Which I take it is essentially the rate of cut for the particular blade and tpi. More thought required. 550 AUD seems like a lot to spend for this particular case, I can see the benfit of running a VFD where it is difficult to change the motor out, i.e. a mill or some application like that.

Cheers

Hi,
Do you know much about the history of the machine? i.e. did the last owner run it on mains or a VSD?
As Rev says it appears to be wired in delta already. Now it could be a star/start delta/run motor, but I'm told thats unlikely below about 5hp. Though there are some funny motors out there.

You'll only need a VSD from Drives Direct if it is a 415V motor only. Even then, for a single standard motor it would likely be cheaper to change it to a 240V 3 phase motor and use a cheaper 240V VSD.
Another option can be to run the 415V motor on 240V. You'll lose about 40% of the hp though.

Stuart

That motor is already wired as a delta (or at least it says that on the name plate next to the COLL! = collegare = connection in Italian).

I agree with stuart that you should be able to pick up a 240V 3Phase motor and then use a 240 single phase to 240 3 phase VFD.

Cheers

Originally Posted by simonmags

suitable motor joint in Adelaide to take the electric motor too.

if you get stuck
Statewide Electric Motors
Beulah Rd Norwood
will look after you

but as said above..if left as it is you can run it on single phase with a 1phase input to 3 phase output VSD

Originally Posted by Stustoys

Hi,
Do you know much about the history of the machine? i.e. did the last owner run it on mains or a VSD?
As Rev says it appears to be wired in delta already. Now it could be a star/start delta/run motor, but I'm told thats unlikely below about 5hp. Though there are some funny motors out there.

You'll only need a VSD from Drives Direct if it is a 415V motor only. Even then, for a single standard motor it would likely be cheaper to change it to a 240V 3 phase motor and use a cheaper 240V VSD.
Another option can be to run the 415V motor on 240V. You'll lose about 40% of the hp though.

Stuart

Hi Stuart,

The motor appears to be 415V only. Unless someone tells me otherwise?

As you say a VFD/VSD for the current motor is reasonably expensive, I think if I were to go to the effort of getting the motor changed over I'd just look at a larger single phase 240V motor, if possible and forget about the VSD option. I'm yet to determine what size motor would adequately replace a 1.5Hp 3Phase 415V motor.

As i'm a home user, having a slow feed in rate doesn't yet worry me all that much, I'm sure having a VSD and being able to get the feed in rate much higher would be quiet useful at times, I'm just not sure if it is worth the extra expense?

The minimum single phase powered motor I would put on that BS is 2HP. However finding a used one is not going to be that easy so you will probably be up for a new one, but it is probably going to cost more than for a used 240V 3 phase motor and the price of a VSD put together. 3 phase motors are usually simpler and much more robust than single phase motors and the last for a long time. Once you start looking for 3 Phase motors I am surprised how many there are out there. In the last 2 years I have "obtained" 8 of them for the average price of about $20 each (see https://www.woodworkforums.com/f271/s...-score-166113/)

Originally Posted by Stustoys

Hi,
Do you know much about the history of the machine? i.e. did the last owner run it on mains or a VSD?
As Rev says it appears to be wired in delta already. Now it could be a star/start delta/run motor, but I'm told thats unlikely below about 5hp. Though there are some funny motors out there.

You'll only need a VSD from Drives Direct if it is a 415V motor only. Even then, for a single standard motor it would likely be cheaper to change it to a 240V 3 phase motor and use a cheaper 240V VSD.
Another option can be to run the 415V motor on 240V. You'll lose about 40% of the hp though.

Stuart

The previous owner had 3 phase on his property so was running it from mains power.

I can't say I am keen to lose 40% of the power, I think I'll hang out for a bit and possibly look around for a new 3 phase motor and VSD. As you say it will probably be cheaper than going with a single phase job anyway. If anyone finds a suitable motor and VSD feel welcome to drop me a line I think I'm about to have a whole lot of fun working out all the sizing standards etc that I need to know to get a new/used motor.

Incidentally I have made up some new lower "blade guides" and I use that term loosely and a new insert for the table as the old ones were pretty well worn. and added some safety signs to remind me to keep my fingers attached to my hands.



and the upper guide, cleaned it up a bit, it's not in position yet as the tension has been taken off the blade, as I hear that's a good thing to do while the machine is not in use...



The particularly sharp eyed ones among you may note the upper thrust bearing, that stops the blade from pushing back to far under pressure is not the standard one. I suspect the old one got lost at some stage and someone made this one up. It is currently on a wooden dowel that looks to have been turned on a lathe. I think the standard bearings had a flat surfaced face?



These are the lower guides. We'll see how well they work after i have had the machine running a few weeks. I suspect I'll need a few spare blanks to swap in and out.

I've also re-purposed some rare earth magnets for the doors, as the lower door catch was busted. There is a magnet on the upper door as well, these are possibly a bit too strong but will do the job very nicely of keeping the doors shut.

My next question after I sort out the motor will probably be about where the blade should be running on the wheels, on the carbatech machines I am familiar with they generally have an obvious crown, whereas this I believe is a European bandsaw and has flat tires. I guess the blade should still run in the center of the wheel...

Also in the process of designing a mobile base for the bandsaw so that if I have to move it again it's not quiet so troublesome. Pictures to follow in the nearish future.

Cheers All, hope to have some more news soon.