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  1. #1
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    Nov 2013
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    Default Ceramic guide adjustment on a Laguna 14-BX bandsaw.

    Although I've been using and adjusting ceramic guides on my 14BX without problems, I wanted to find a way to make it faster and more accurate.

    The first thing that always annoys me is setting the top guides. To do this the side guide block housing has to be loosened, as soon as you do that the housing is able to rotate around the rear guide support shaft, the block housing is free to rotate from horizontal. There is some small allowance for rotating each side guide block in the housing in order to bring the guides parallel to the blade, but doing so causes a slight vertical offset between each pair of side guides if the housing is not horizontal. Because of the way the guides wrap around the mounting shaft, there is a real chance of having the guides ceramic surfaces not parallel to the blade surface in this position. So after adjusting the rear guide, I put a set square on the table and rotate the side guide housing so that the side of the housing is near vertical.

    This short video from Laguna shows exactly what I'm talking about, at 1.36 minutes you can see the "fudge" cut in the video when they realised that all 4 guides were not aligned to the blade due to the guide block housing being rotated slightly on the rear guide shaft.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d0EhyANcYWY

    The lower guide housing is attached to a large base plate and is fixed in the horizontal position, the base plate adjusts the position of the side guides to the gullet of the blade, then the rear guide shaft is set to blade. However the base plate can easily be set slightly crooked and the side guides will then not parallel to the side of the blade in the horizontal plane (front to back), so it's important to check the alignment of that lower base plate.

    The second problem is the idea of bringing the guides as close to the blade as possible, yes people have different opinions on how close or if indeed they should touch, in an old video the designer of the machines suggests just touching or almost touching, obviously allowances must be made for a crook blade with a stepped / thick join if doing so. Again a dial indicator will show this and by how much, same with the back of the blade as some blades are not truly flat around their length.

    The problems are exasperated by the fact that the side guide holders can rotate ever so slightly as you attempt to tighten them - yes even if they don't appear to do so to the naked eye.

    I use a thin U shaped spacer for almost zero clearance between the ceramic guides and the blade, this obviously makes it easy to clamp the guides against the blade for equal clearance of all 4 side guides in each block housing. However the blade will flex away from vertical with any attempt to do so, you end up having to readjust a number of times to get it close enough. And whatever guide you have already set (top or bottom) will now have the blade moved in its guide blocks, the blade path will no longer be vertical, this of course can apply to any guide type, but as the ceramic guides are adjusted with almost zero clearance, the effect is more noticeable.

    I came up with a very simple, and in the end, a very fast way to adjust the guides, both top and bottom. I use a dial indicator to indicate any deviation of the blade from it's normal - unguided - vertical position. The two side guide block holders (2 ceramic blocks in each holder) sit either side of the blade and are simply squeezed together with the desired clearance spacer between the ceramic guides and the blade, the indicator shows any deviation of the blade, using the indicator (not looking at the guides) to adjust for correct blade position and alignment turns out to be simple, very quick and very accurate.

    Unloaded dial position is at the lower black tab, pointer is preloaded with 0.1mm against the blade.


    I use a dial indicator with a magnetic switch base - around $65 all up a few years back. BTW there are so many uses for one of these things in the workshop but that’s another story.



    I simply put the dial indicator against the blade, adjust the indicator with around 0.1mm of pre-load against the blade, obviously you don't want to deflect the blade with to much pre-load. Now any deviation from centre as you lock the guides down is displayed on the indicator. Position the dial indicator between the top and bottom guides and you are ready to do both guides in a few seconds.

    There are a lot of experts who adjust ceramic guides in 4 seconds flat by eye and 300mm high veneers slice off perfectly every time, but I'm obviously not that clever, so even though this sounds like a long winded hassle to most of you, setting the side blocks now takes around 10 second each, it's perfect every single time with the first locking down of the guides and it ensures that the blade path is vertical between the top and bottom guides.

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  3. #2
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    Nov 2013
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    Caboolture QLD AU
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    Default

    One thing I forgot to mention. I replaced the lower guide locking knobs with bolts that are adjusted by a 7/16" ring spanner, also replaced the rear guide shaft lock knob that hinders table tilt if mounted on the outside, if it's mounted in the inside hole it's hard to reach. using the correct length bolt on the outside of the guide block allows me to tilt the table with the bolt mounted on the outside for quick easy access. The change to bolts with real bolt heads and a small ring spanner is so nice. Tool-less adjustment my be a great marketing feature but IMHO it sucks for the lower guides. I've also replaced the shaft knob on the upper guide with the same bolt, so much easier. The ring spanner is attached to the BS with a magnetic holder, it's always in reach.

  4. #3
    Join Date
    Feb 2016
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    Canberra
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    Default

    I was going to read the thread in entirety this arvo, but did want to mention that I also replaced the finger screws with bolts that accept a 4mm allen key.

    Conveniently the bolts are M6 and Ive some nice shiney nickel plated ones.

    The BS is a Laguna SUV14 and doing the lower guides is a major PITA. The allen key makes this whole process much easier.

  5. #4
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    Feb 2016
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    Post #2, Ive found with the big blades that the very best result is by not having the guides close to the top of the timber, but 3 or 4 inches above it.

    Also, I dont tension the band as hard as I can, I give it only moderate tension.

    Today I experienced the blade pulling right while ripping a billion metres of pine into 13mm strips. I reduced the tension a bit and it then cut straight. Very interesting.

  6. #5
    Join Date
    Nov 2013
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    Caboolture QLD AU
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    Default

    I've also found that using moderate blade tension gives better results. The blade tension indicator on the BX is just a magnetic decal and I found mine totally useless until I repositioned it, I know it's only meant as a guide but in my case it wasn't even that. It actually moved when the vacuum cleaner nozzle got near it, mainly because the left hand side of the decal was lifted by being placed over the welded edge bead, came from the factory like that.

    Most BS owners seem to put off changing blades and try to make do with the current blade if they can get away with it. I must admit to getting to that stage, mainly because of the fiddly guide adjustments and the lower guide knobs, having replaced the knobs and finding a simple quick way to set the guides without mucking around aligning them has changed that, I've once again gotten pretty good at folding the blades, getting them folded first go every time now.

    On the subject of the lower guides, the bolts I used are shiny silver and instantly visible through the table opening, I went with a ring spanner fitting because my wife found them easier than Allen heads, she is 5'4" and a very tiny build so she had no hope of ever setting the lower guides - could not turn the plastic locking knobs - doing this mod has allowed her to do a blade change herself, and using the dial gauge has now given her the confidence to correctly set the guides. She is very good at turning and other wood work, but like a lot of people she is challenged when it comes to having a natural feel for machines and the mechanical forces and movements involved. My goal is to make everything in our workshop as easy and as safe for her as I possibly can.

  7. #6
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    100% agree.

    Too many things rely on mains strength and those silly little knobs are a good example.

    Manufacturers seem to miss the fact that we aren't all Hercules.

  8. #7
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
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    Melbourne, Australia.
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    Sounds very interesting. My Men's Shed has ordered one of these, any chance of pictures showing the bolts?

    Mick.

  9. #8
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    Hi, don't know if you are referring to the 14-BX or the SUV, but the guides in the 14-BX are shown very clearly in the video link in the first post at 2m 11s, the 3 plastic knobs I'm talking about are behind the guides. Don't know if the SUV is exactly the same but woodPixel can verify that. I plan on changing the two front guide lock down knobs as well for the same reason.

  10. #9
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    Feb 2016
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    Canberra
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    The bolts are these: Joint Connector Bolts JCB 6mm Furniture Bolt and a split spring washer to allow adjustability.

    With the split ring, one can back off the bolt a bit while still applying pressure to the assembly. It is easy to adjust accurately.


    IMG_20171211_232935_HHT.jpg

  11. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by MandJ View Post
    Hi, don't know if you are referring to the 14-BX or the SUV, but the guides in the 14-BX are shown very clearly in the video link in the first post at 2m 11s, the 3 plastic knobs I'm talking about are behind the guides. Don't know if the SUV is exactly the same but woodPixel can verify that. I plan on changing the two front guide lock down knobs as well for the same reason.
    Got it now. I wasn't quite sure but now I see what you mean. The original alignment in their clip only had one of each sides ceramic guides touching, magically one second later they were all in alignment. I also see the knobs clearly when they had the table removed for clarity.

    We have a 14-BX on order.

    Mick.

  12. #11
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    The rear hold down knobs and the main guide block lock bolts (side bolt) are the same size, but in the BX the front guide lock down bolts that woodPixel posted (thanks for that info) are larger. I assume the SUV is the same.

    When you get the thing and have a play I'm sure you will soon realise why we are changing these out.

  13. #12
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    Oct 2004
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    Thanks. Very helpful, just got the BX and although a million times better than my old Hafco I found the same issue with the bottom guide bolts. I’ll change them as per your suggestion.

    I’ve only done some test cuts on mine and with the resawing blade the cut is so smooth I can easily sand or plane off. I was very surprised!

    Cheers.


    Once upon a time I had hair and time [emoji848]
    You can never have enough planes, that is why Mr Stanley invented the 1/2s

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