Thread: Hammer N4400 Purchase ?? Table size

Never had any problem with the width of the table, I guess it would only be a problem if you were cutting sheet material.
I don't have a table extension, but if I'm cutting something long, particularly resawing, I put a roller stand behind the saw to support the job as it feeds out.

Great saw.

Originally Posted by Wolfs

I am considering buying a Hammer N4400 bandsaw and all the posts seem positive and my own inspection of one confirms this. But the table seems small, particularly the distance from the edge of the table to the blade. Is this a problem in practise? Is there a way of fitting extensions at the back an front of the table? There is an extension for available for the back but it may be expensive. Any views gratefully received.

I would not say that the table is small. Pretty decent size, in fact. What is your reference machine for judging size?

Build extensions if you need. So far I have not required such, although I have used a roller on the outfeed side on occasion.

Regards from Perth

Derek

I have ordered the N4400. I can't say I thought the table size small in comparison to machines I have used previously. As with any machine if you are working with larger stock it is essential to support your work on both the infeed and outfeed sides. I saw an article on a recent incident on a larger bandsaw where the bloke didn't have adequate infeed support where cutting dovetails for a workbench. It wasn't pleasant.

As mentioned above a roller stand can serve this purpose. Hammer/Felder also sell aluminium extensions that clip onto rails attached to the front, side and rear of the bandsaw table. These are detailed on page 66 of the Hammer ctalogue and page 105 of the Felder "Workshop Tools" catalogue. I'm sure your local Felder rep will be happy to take your cash should you want such a thing.

Cheers

Horaldic

I am considering purchasing the Felder / Hammer N4400 however am missing some key information which would help me ensure it will perform, and fit, in my shed with my other tools.

The following shows the information I have / have not collected. I am unsure why this information isn't provided freely / easily by Felder / Hammer.

any information anyone could tell me about this would be grateful. (I'd prefer the 3Phase over the single phase).


Brand: Felder / Hammer
Model: N4400

Height (mm)
Width (Front)
Depth (Side)
Height to Table

Table Size 420mm*575mm

Max Cutting Depth: 300mm
Max Cutting 420mm

Phase of Motor: 1Ph
Horse Power: 3HP / 4HP (I have found reference to both for same model)
Amps of Motor: 20amp?

Speeds: 1@850rpm
Tilt
Wheel Type Cast Alloy
Wheel Diameter 440mm

Blade Length: 3985

Min saw blade width
Max saw blade width

Number of dust port

Weight

Hi Drooten,

Try calling Hammer - Stefan Kramer 02.47351011

THe cutting height is 11 inches, not 12"

I think the motor is now 3kW (4Hp)

recommended blade width is 1/4" -> 3/4", but I've used a 1" blade successfully, as I've also used a 1/8" blade successfully on 3" stock. Do a search on N4400 on this site, will give a lot of info.

My machine (very early model, 2005) has one 5" (120mm) dust port, but they may have changed.

Size is 1900 x approx 850w x approx 650 deep. Table is about 980mm off the floor.

Specifications change - Stefan will be able to help with current spec.

Below is the data from the 2005 manual:

wt 140kg
1900 x 650 x 800mm [packed dimension 780 x 660 x 1900]
420mm max width [370mm with rip fence]
Saw Blade length 3900 - 4075mm
Blade speed 20m/sec
table size 420 x 575
Table tilt -10° to +45°
Table height from ground 950mm
Wheel dia 440mm
Min air speed needed = 20m/sec (edit: this value is too high in my opinion - needs lots of suction) Needs 814m3/hr @ 773pa (480cfm @ 3.5"WG)

Cheers,

eddie

Eddie,

Thanks for the specifications, even if there are minor changes between your 2005 model and current model, this will be enough to give me some ideas on what brand I will be going for when I finally purchase my bandsaw (hopefully later on this year).

To be honest, the biggest seller for me would be hearing from people like yourself that you are happy with this brand of bandsaw overall. Is there anything you are unhappy with or are you glad that you purchased this product over the competition (such as Jet, Carba-Tec, Hare & Forbes, etc).

Drooten.

Originally Posted by drooten

Eddie,

Thanks for the specifications, even if there are minor changes between your 2005 model and current model, this will be enough to give me some ideas on what brand I will be going for when I finally purchase my bandsaw (hopefully later on this year).

To be honest, the biggest seller for me would be hearing from people like yourself that you are happy with this brand of bandsaw overall. Is there anything you are unhappy with or are you glad that you purchased this product over the competition (such as Jet, Carba-Tec, Hare & Forbes, etc).

Drooten.

No dramas, I subscribe to the "buy once and buy quality" school of thought. The machine's made in an Italian factory to the same quality specs as the industrial machines. It works well, do a search on the site for 'hammer eddie' and it should bring up feedback.

No, I didn't go for a Taiwanese machine as I use one two daily and am familiar with their foibles. The Hammer machine is a lot better quality (with a bigger price tag as well.)

CHeers,

eddie

Hi Drooten

I don't subscribe to the "buy on specs" school, and the best method of comparative shopping is to look at the machines and, if possible, try them out.

I went from a Taiwanese 14" bandsaw )that I put through a few mods, such as high riser block and 1 1/2 hp motor) to a 4 hp Hammer 4400 about 3 years ago. It is the current model as far as I am aware. I did look at a few other 18" bandsaws, such as the Carba-tec and Jet. Up close it was easy to see that the Hammer was in a different class - more power, better fittings, better finished, etc.

The negative on the Hammer is that it benefits from the correct power source, 20 amps (otherwise you lose some of those HP you pay for). The table also does not come with a mitre gauge, and the mitre slot is non-standard. I did make my own runner to fit the slot - its somewhere on these threads - as I find one very useful.

I am very happy with this bandsaw, and cannot see it ever being upgraded.

Regards from Perth

Derek

Unfortunately, I can't say I'm thrilled with my N4400. The things that bug me...

1. The weird mitre gauge slot size. Why not use a standard size?
2. The table only tilts to 22.5 degrees. The excuse was something about the filler blocks in the table. meh....
3. The vertical guide for the top guide blocks is off-square. Nothing adjustable about it, it's just made that way. I have to readjust the guide blocks if I move the height more than a couple of centimetres.
4. The weird sized dust collection port.

Budget for new blades. The ones that come with the machine are pretty low grade.

It is a low more powerful than my old 17" taiwanese saw, but it was not worth replacing that saw for the price difference. I would have kept it but it really wasn't up to resawing more than about 6" tops in hardwood, and I do a lot of resawing. That's the one reason I still have it. I was ready to have the $%*^( thing melted down for most of the first 6 months. I've learned to put up with it.

One thing nobody warns you about .. the blade almost falls off the bottom wheel (not centred, to say the least). That's the way it's supposed to be. It works fine, but it's really unnerving.

Also, the dust collection is a joke. One day I'll cut a hole up near the bottom guide and fashion something that will actually extract some dust.

As to table extensions, Hammer/Felder have some aluminium ones. The'yre really strong, and as heavy as an aircraft carrier, but the design of the fittings is not great. I have the long table, and it is a great tool for when I'm resawing long wide boards.

The guide blocks are a nice, quality design, I'll give that a thumbs up.

This product is not up to the other Felder equipment. I've heard that it's made in Italy, unlike the other felder gear. That would explain a lot of the 'weird' stuff (if you've ever owned an Alfa Romeo, you would know what I mean .. this bandsaw could have come from the same designer and factory), but the Felder guys deny this is true. It's certainly nothing like the combo machines in terms of quality and design.

I would ask about some of the other machines like the Jet if I was going to buy a new bandsaw. I can't say if they're good or bad, but I can only recommend my N4400 in terms of power - and I'm lucky in having 3 phase in my workshop.

I seem to be alone in my opinions, though.

Phil

Unfortunately, I can't say I'm thrilled with my N4400. The things that bug me...

1. The weird mitre gauge slot size. Why not use a standard size?

Phil, I agree. I used the steel from a cheap Chinese F-clamp. It fitted 100% for depth and width. then added a front end from a table saw.





2. The table only tilts to 22.5 degrees. The excuse was something about the filler blocks in the table. meh....

Totally agree.

3. The vertical guide for the top guide blocks is off-square. Nothing adjustable about it, it's just made that way. I have to readjust the guide blocks if I move the height more than a couple of centimetres.

Mine is spot-on and adjusting the blade is a thing of pleasure.

4. The weird sized dust collection port.

Mine came with a converter. Did yours?

Budget for new blades. The ones that come with the machine are pretty low grade.

Actually, I thought that the 1/2" blades were pretty good. In fact I bought more. Eventually I ordered on the web from Henry Bros just because their rep was so good. It is deserved.

It is a low more powerful than my old 17" taiwanese saw, but it was not worth replacing that saw for the price difference. I would have kept it but it really wasn't up to resawing more than about 6" tops in hardwood, and I do a lot of resawing. That's the one reason I still have it. I was ready to have the $%*^( thing melted down for most of the first 6 months. I've learned to put up with it.

My 3/4 hp 14" Taiwanese bandsaw struggled to cut 2" Jarrah. I upgraded the motor to 1 1/2 hp. This improved things a lot, but a good bandsaw is more than a motor. I did compare 18" Jet and a Carbatec bandsaws to the Hammer. They were not on the same planet.

One thing nobody warns you about .. the blade almost falls off the bottom wheel (not centred, to say the least). That's the way it's supposed to be. It works fine, but it's really unnerving.

I've changed many blades and never had a problem. In fact I think that blade changes are easy-peasy.

Have you had Felder look at your set up?

Regards from Perth

Derek

Derek,
All of my initial research always includes the specifications (let your fingers do the walking) and all of my secondary research includes visual inspection. The Hammer tool is in a different state approx 600km away, and so it had better have some darn good specs for me to go for a drive that far to compare it to the competition! I am actually interested in the 21" BS models and am not sure that the Hammer product will do what I want out of a BS.

Originally Posted by SP_Flip

Unfortunately, I can't say I'm thrilled with my N4400. The things that bug me...

1. The weird mitre gauge slot size. Why not use a standard size?

I don't use a mitre gauge with the saw. Didn't enter my calculations. If I need to make a jig for a saw, I mill a bit of hard wood (jarrah or similar) to fit the slot.

2. The table only tilts to 22.5 degrees. The excuse was something about the filler blocks in the table. meh....

My saw goes to 45 degrees - there's a set screw at 22.5° tilt, loosen it off then take the saw to 45°.

I don't believe it's changed, but I've been wrong before.

3. The vertical guide for the top guide blocks is off-square. Nothing adjustable about it, it's just made that way. I have to readjust the guide blocks if I move the height more than a couple of centimetres.

Never had this problem.

4. The weird sized dust collection port.

120mm? standard 5" hose fits nicely - my dusty has a 5" inlet, so it wasn't a problem.

Budget for new blades. The ones that come with the machine are pretty low grade.

It is a low more powerful than my old 17" taiwanese saw, but it was not worth replacing that saw for the price difference. I would have kept it but it really wasn't up to resawing more than about 6" tops in hardwood, and I do a lot of resawing. That's the one reason I still have it. I was ready to have the $%*^( thing melted down for most of the first 6 months. I've learned to put up with it.

One thing nobody warns you about .. the blade almost falls off the bottom wheel (not centred, to say the least). That's the way it's supposed to be. It works fine, but it's really unnerving.

Blade changes are quick and easy on mine - blade tracks perfectly.

Also, the dust collection is a joke. One day I'll cut a hole up near the bottom guide and fashion something that will actually extract some dust.

I've been consistently critical of dust collection. In my view, this is the weak point of the saw.

As to table extensions, Hammer/Felder have some aluminium ones. They're really strong, and as heavy as an aircraft carrier, but the design of the fittings is not great. I have the long table, and it is a great tool for when I'm resawing long wide boards.

I use a portable roller support to do the same.

The guide blocks are a nice, quality design, I'll give that a thumbs up.

This product is not up to the other Felder equipment. I've heard that it's made in Italy, unlike the other felder gear. That would explain a lot of the 'weird' stuff (if you've ever owned an Alfa Romeo, you would know what I mean .. this bandsaw could have come from the same designer and factory), but the Felder guys deny this is true. It's certainly nothing like the combo machines in terms of quality and design.

I would ask about some of the other machines like the Jet if I was going to buy a new bandsaw. I can't say if they're good or bad, but I can only recommend my N4400 in terms of power - and I'm lucky in having 3 phase in my workshop.

I seem to be alone in my opinions, though.

not necessarily, although it sounds as though you've got a problem with alignment of the upper moveable guide.

Phil

eddie

Originally Posted by eddie the eagle

I don't use a mitre gauge with the saw. Didn't enter my calculations. If I need to make a jig for a saw, I mill a bit of hard wood (jarrah or similar) to fit the slot.

My saw goes to 45 degrees - there's a set screw at 22.5° tilt, loosen it off then take the saw to 45°.

If I take the set screw out of mine it goes to 37 degrees. Not much more use. And they must have put the set screw there for a reason, no? The Felder bandsaws are like this, too .. they only go to 20 degrees (I have no idea why they even bothered to make them tilt!). It bugs me that I have to use a jig when I want to rip a block.

120mm? standard 5" hose fits nicely - my dusty has a 5" inlet, so it wasn't a problem.

115mm OD on mine. I just went and measured it (along with the table tilt above). I 'adapted' it to 120mm by wrapping duct tape around it, then took it down to 100mm, which is the size of the vast majority of dust collectors out there.

Blade changes are quick and easy on mine - blade tracks perfectly.

Agreed - the blade tracks fine. But it looks weird, as I said in my original post - a 1/2" blade is almost 1/2 off the wheel and small blades just barely sit on it, but they work. I thought for sure the bottom wheel was from a different bandsaw. They convinced me it was supposed to be that way.

Regards the blade quality, I have a standard (and mean) test. I resaw 10" brushbox slabs. Jarrah ain't hard ... brushbox is real man's wood! With all the silica in it, it basically blunted out the resaw blade after about 10 lm. Bad carbide. I'll heartily second those recommendations to Henry Bros.

It is a powerful saw, and that's why I keep it. I've yet to find anything as powerful in that size range, and I have a low roof, so can't fit a bigger saw. Who would try to cut more than 250mm anyway?

I don't know. Maybe I got a lemon. But if so, it's a multiple lemon, which says the quality can't be all that great. Felder makes great gear, but this is not in the league of the rest of their equipment.

I have other gripes, too. Almost every metal part rusts like there's no tomorrow. I have lots of machinery, including some 'cheap' Taiwanese stuff, in the same shop, but none of it rusts like that bloody bandsaw. I have to lube every bit of bare metal to within an inch of it's life every month or the thing would crumble to dust.

Wierd, SP_Flip. Don't gt me wrong, I'm not trying to defend the brand and tools are a means to an end, not something to die in a ditch or have a Ford/Holden discussion over. Mine's a quality machine built to high standards.

Mine goes the full 45 degrees, I've ripped octagons onto square section from both ends, and the 45 degree chamfers were perfectly aligned. You had to look hard to see where the two cuts met each other

Did the quadrant under the table travel to it's full extent? I'm sure that it would have done so on your machine because of what you say

I've gotten around 115m ducts by shoving a 4" hose inside the dust port, not over it. It's a friction fit, but wierd. I've never heard of 4.5" dust collector hose. As I said, the dust port on mine is 5".

Cheers,

eddie