Thread: Tell me I'm dreaming/crazy

I had the Hafco 14'' cast iron frame saw for a while and as you have suspected the 3/4 hp motor is only good for smallish work. The saw itself was ok and even the block guides work better than they look. You can also use hardwood blocks in them and the saw runs very quietly. I looked into getting the height extension and a bigger motor but that put me in budget range of a new saw. In the end I opted for the BP 355. Had that for about 15 years now and still happy with it. 2 blokes can get one out of a ute and set up without a forklift. You would have to find the extra pair of hands as a lot of delivery drivers wont handle heavy lifting.
Regards
John

Originally Posted by Timsimco

Again, I know that cast iron, especially with the riser block is not going to be as stiff as a proper steel frame Rikon, Laguna, Harvey etc with true 12-13" resaw capacity,

I have an old generic cast iron 14" bandsaw; it is plenty stiff. I also regularly maintain and use a few generic Chinese 14" units (H&F, Carbatax etc) and a Laguna 14/16. Only the Laguna is slightly stiffer than the cast iron unit.

My 2c? If you have the money go a Laguna; otherwise pick up an old cast iron unit. The only mod I would add would be a Cobra spring and maybe a de-tensioner; I haven't bothered with mine and still use the crappy tiny aluminium fence but don't have any issues. I have a riser but haven't fitted it as I don't need the extra height at the moment.

All other things being equal in your choices, I would choose one with the split in the table for loading the blade coming from the side rather than the front. I have an older Hafco 16" MJ344 and one of the few things I dislike about it apart from (I just looked at all of it), is this one feature. Pain in the butt removing/refitting/tuning the fence each time the blade is changed

None of the nicer saws have a table slot to the side, it's a sign of a cheap machine.
Here's some small Italian machines, sizes range from 400, 440, or 450mm wheel size.
They have the same footprint as anything else really, though get progressively larger thereafter,
so are about the size as the cheapest 20" far Eastern machines you'll find
eyJidWNrZXQiOiJkb25lZGVhbC5pZS1waG90b3MiLCJlZGl0cyI6eyJ0b0Zvcm1hdCI6ImpwZWciLCJyZXNpemUiOnsiZml.jpegacm snac.jpgSP400 £600.jpgmultico bandsaw.jpegN'RA 400.jpgJolly-45-4.jpghammer n440 small.jpg


400 quid s450.jpgScreenshot-2023-6-7 Bandsaw Tuneup- Laguna 16 Bandsaw Gets A New Woodslicer Blade and Dust Colle.jpg
Or a 4300mm cheapie large frame sized machines are about the same, and also some tightly cramped 20" are about the same size.You get the jist, and I'd rather spend my money on that, the good machines have cast iron wheels, the cheaper, then you'd need check that.
And, even if three phase, it'll give you all the resto vibes yer after, to make it yours.


Screenshot-2023-5-10 Band saw in Ellon, Aberdeenshire Gumtree.jpg


All the best
Tom

Originally Posted by Tom trees

None of the nicer saws have a table slot to the side, it's a sign of a cheap machine.

OK thanks, I'll let my woodwork mentor know his huge Barker bandsaw is a cheap machine. Slot position is hardly a indication of quality, I've seen it both ways on cheap and expensive machines. Let your determination of qualtiy be guided by other things

Tim, been there done that.

Today I have a Hammer N4400 18" bandsaw, which is as solid as a brick dunny. However, my first bandsaw was a Carbatec 14" about 20 years ago. This had a 6" re-saw and 3/4" hp motor. I added a 1 1/2 hp motor, which certainly gave it ooomph. Then I added a riser kit, and now the re-saw capacity was 12" ...



The problem was that the frame of the bandsaw was not stiff enough to carry the depth of cut. It could not take the tensioning needed for the height of cut. I sold the bandsaw, which was otherwise very decent as long as the cut remained at 6". Nevertheless, as long as the frame could not take more tension, better (carbide or bimetal) blades could not be used, and so the cut would remain mediocre regardless of all the power in the world.

The frame is more important than the power/motor. Get the most heavy-duty bandsaw you can.

Regards from Perth

Derek

My story is similar to Derek's in some ways. I started out with a Hafco 14". It wasn't perfect, but importantly, the table was flat. Apparently, they weren't always thus. I was able to set it up so that I could cut 1mm veneers in blackwood, to almost the full depth of cut, with a bi-metal blade. However, it was a slow process, and may have been made faster with a more powerful motor. It was important to keep the blades sharp. I was fortunate in being taught how to sharpen them.

Over the years I did have to replace a few things. I can't remember what the original block guides were, but I do remember replacing them with nylon ones. The casting that holds the tensioner broke, and examination showed a faulty casting. I also replaced the upper & lower bearings when one of them failed. I never tried a height extender, as I'd read of problems with flexing. However, I didn't have any such problems with the standard unit. I did fit an after-market fence.

Eventually, it was too small for my needs, so I sold it to a Mens Shed and replaced it with a Hammer N4400, with which I am very happy after about 15 years.

Thanks everyone for all of the responses. You have confirmed what I knew in my head (bad idea, well perhaps not 'bad' per se, but at least sub optimal) but my heart did thrill to the idea of refurbing something old and making it into something worthwhile and 'mine'. Strong silk purse from sow's ear vibes from watching too many my mechanics videos on YT...

John, thanks for the BP 355 advice. Ticks a lot of boxes, but when I do look at the freight it adds hundreds, and I get stuck in a "what don't I spend the freight, plus a "little" extra and get a Laguna 1412" loop!

Chief, a valuable 2c, and with time a few more sales I'm hoping to get there.

mic-d, it's always struck me as an odd design choice to have the table split towards the front, especially those machines with the fence rail bolted on *both* sides of the table split

Tom, I've noticed front and side access in a range of saws, both cheaper and more expensive. All of the classic cast iron 14" Delta (I believe) clones from Taiwan have the blade slot to the side, while the "Full Boar" bunnings cheapie has the slot to the front. Those are some serious bandsaws on display! You're right about the resto vibes, I'll just have to find a different project I think!

Derek, thanks for your real world experience. I must admit I read your post and started to 'argue' "but what about just a ⅜" or ½" blade, surely it could tension that..." But I'm probably still at the 'bargaining' stage on this one... I think the tipping point for me was the idea of putting in still considerable dollars, lots of time, lots of hope, but still getting mediocre results that waste time and timber.

Alex, again, thanks for sharing your personal experience. I've since read and watched a few things about the casting that holds the upper wheel axle and manages the tensioning and wheel adjustment cracking. A hard part to fully inspect on the old cast iron BSs and lurking cracks could be trouble.

In all, talk of 15 or so years of happiness going for a more modern machine, and some buy once cry once thinking has me (mostly &#128521 convinced.

Thanks again to everyone for your time and thoughts

Tim

There's plenty of reasons to go looking for an Italian machine, none of which have a slot to the side.
I suggest some studying of those machines to see why that is.
Seems your on the right track regarding that, I for one can mention something from Novellara having super skookum castings,
not to mention some comical piccies of bent chassis from those who've used too long of a blade.
If that ain't a good test, then I dunno what is.

Not saying don't buy a Far Eastern machine, even a cheaper version of one with a slot to the side, (which has cast iron wheels, that is) for cheap,
but best to check it's got a common wheel size, ala the Italian machines, 400, 440, and 450mm standards since the '80's,
as you might find it more difficult to source replacements if you wished to buy stretch on types.

Don't omit a gander of the three phase market, and you'd be looking at spending much less money, factoring in a hundred quid VFD to run it,
but on a little saw like those, then the reasoning is for a bargain only, (most likely,but depending on extraction)
and the likelyhood of anything compared to the CO450 being guaranteed success, right off the bat,
that goes for brand spankin new or old, is pot luck, by design.

The CO , (one which has a foot mount motor) is the only way to be sure of anything,
other checks worth noting the wheels being balanced, and nothing missing or broken,
That would be the machine I'd be taking home, be it single or three phase.
CO 450.jpeg

That's for someone who would be quite bothered about making a flange mounted motor adjustable.

It's one of the ways I made me saw mine, and should I find another machine for a few hundred quid local,
I'd be doing the same thing again.
Partial Centaurolization if you will... well yes, if the machine was made from thick enough steel with trustworthy cast iron, that is.

Good luck on the scavenge!

Tom

Tim ... you are crazy if, after decades of wanting a bandsaw, you buy a crappy toy.

Italian, yes.
LARGEST possible, yes.

You will not regret it.

IMO anyway. (H intentionally omitted)

Hi Tim,

Perhaps another perspective for your consideration.

I think if you want to resaw wide boards, you should get the biggest machine you can possibly fit into the allocated space. I know the feeling of buying a smaller (16") bandsaw for the purposes of resawing ex demolition timber, only to be disappointed that it was unable to tension the blades needed for the job.

If you look at the second hand market, your money will go a long way.

Without knowing how much space you have to play with, my hunch is that you will get away with a much larger saw than a 14 inch model, unless height becomes a factor.

For example, I have a smallish shed, yet can easily fit a 30inch machine I bought for a couple of hundred dollars. Yes it needed a bit of TLC, however it has been going strong these last 70 odd years and there's no reason to think that it will give up the ghost any time soon. The wearable items like belts, bearings etc can be replaced provided the fundamentals are sound.

Others have recommended Italian machines, however there are a number of quality older English machines such as Wadkin and Robinson that I would recommend keeping an eye out for.

Cheers, Zac.

The C500 looks pretty compact, if a bit tall/tippy possibly, should one be thinking of making a deeper mobile base for it, might be a good thing.
$_86.jpg
Still much larger footprint that a compact Far Eastern machine though, much like all the Italian machines, space savers buying Italian might step things down a tad.
Here's me old new lemon what I had briefly before returning, one of the lighter duty offerings from the Far East,
with much smaller table and slot to the side, but featuring decent enough cast iron wheels, which is the most important part really, well that and the motor.
Checking for coplanar .jpg
Here's another shot of the same machine, from the back you might just make out the table size, quite small compared to some.
Far Eastern compact 20" bandsaw.jpeg
Many might agree a 500mm machine being one size more than they're after, but that's the usual rule of thumb anyway.

Not saying the table on the CO 450 isn't huge, compared to some in that size wheel range, but something with an adjustable motor deserves
an extra mention, should one stumble across one.

Also worth noting, the possibility of finding something old (welded steel frame old, not of the babbitt bearings era)
will probably feature vulcanized tires, as per most of the Italian machines...
and will likely be needing the rubber dressed to a camber again.
As a consequence, that might likely mean that these machines could've been used very briefly in anger, and tucked away into a corner and neglected thereafter, so there's likely the kinda machine out there for cheap, which would fit the bill.

Tom